Covenant Succession: Education & The New Christendom (Part III)

include more than nobility and professional clergymen. For the Reformed and Protestant Christian, you know, Universal education of children was an outworking of the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers, as it applied to normal human discipleship. If we're all priests, boys and girls, men and women, clergy and lady, nobility and laborer, then ought we not all be able to access the scriptures ourselves to read and write and reason clearly? Prior to this time, the vast majority of education had been an undertaking only for the clergy or the nobility. And so to that end, Protestants in 17th century America, even passed laws requiring communities to create and support basic education in their communities. The oldest of these laws is found in the Old Deluder Satan Act of 1647 in Massachusetts, which reads as follows, it being one of the chief project of that old deluder, Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the scriptures, as in former times keeping them in an unknown tongue, so in these later times by persuading from the use of tongues, that so at least the true sense and meaning of the original might be clouded by false glasses of saint-seeming deceivers, and that learning may not be buried in the graves of our forefathers in church and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors, it is therefore ordered by this court and authority thereof, that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to the number

and commonwealth, the Lord assisting our endeavors, it is therefore ordered by this court and authority thereof, that every township in this jurisdiction, after the Lord hath increased them to the number of fifty householders, shall then forthwith appoint one within their town to teach all such children as shall resort to him to write and read, whose wages shall be paid either by the parents or masters of such children or by the inhabitants in general by way of supply, as the major part of those that order the prudentials of the town shall appoint, provided that those which send their children be not oppressed by paying much more than they can have them taught for in other towns. And it is further ordered that where any town shall increase to the number of 100 families or householders, they shall set up a grammar school. the masters thereof being able to instruct youth so far as they may be fitted for the university. And if any town neglect the performance hereof above one year, then every such town shall pay five pounds per annum to the next such school till they shall perform this order. In this episode of the Kings Hall, we'll talk about how Christian education relates to the new Christendom and to ordinary covenant succession. And along the way, we'll try to talk to you in a starting glorious, rigorous, soul-shaping Christian schools. The King's Hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world.

glorious, rigorous, soul-shaping Christian schools. The King's Hall podcast exists to make self-ruled men who rule well and win the world. Well, welcome back to another episode of the Kings Hall. My name's Brian Sovey, as always, joined by my good friends, Daniel Berkholder, Eric Con. say hi to the listeners, guys. I actually go by Leroy Jenkins. You go by Leroy Jenkins now. Leroy Jenkins now. All right. Okay, starting it out on a classy note here in the Kings Hall. Always classic. King's not jesters. That's what we are. That's what we are. Well, we're glad that you've tuned in here with us as we continue in season one here talking about the work of building the new Christendom in one of the features of this work is that it's going to be definitionally an intergenerational work. You don't build Christendom in five years and then do it again every generation. It's something that you're building and putting together over multiple and many generations together. And that means that it's a project that will need to be handled. off at varying stages of development from one generation to the next. And so for the past few episodes here in season one of the Kings Hall, we've been talking about covenant succession. This mechanism, the normal means by which God intends for the covenant to be handed down from father to son, mother to daughter, along with the values and practical tools

one of the Kings Hall, we've been talking about covenant succession. This mechanism, the normal means by which God intends for the covenant to be handed down from father to son, mother to daughter, along with the values and practical tools needed to live Christianly in every part of what it means to be human, to build, to occupy, and to defend the walls of the new Christendom. And if you've been listening for any length of time, you know that God has just designed it this way. He's designed it such that the normal everyday means of living life, Corom Deo, which is to say before God, as men and women and husbands and wives, fathers and mothers, churchmen, citizens of nations, that those normal means would serve as potent channels of God's covenant keeping grace. We'd say that unless the Lord builds the house, those who labor in vain, those who labor, labor, labor, labor, in vain, but the Lord delights to build the house. I don't know, Brian. It kind of sounds like Christian nationalism to me. Oh, of course not Christian. Nothing so evil and abominable as Christian nationalism. Eric, politics are fundamentally evil and wicked and sinful. Christians should just look at it and say, icky, and then let the Democrats have it. Am I right? That's exactly right? And all this talk about thinking that your kids will be Christians? Oh, I'm sorry. What I meant was, roll the dice, who knows? Roll the dice, who knows?

Christian education and fast cars. And glue sniffing. And glue sniffing. Absolutely. I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing blue. Eric, that's huge. That's huge. That's huge. That's huge. Eric, what you just said, that's huge. So what we're going to talk about in today's episode is Christian education as we continue mining this theme of covenant succession and the importance of this ordinary covenant succession between generations in building and seeing the new Christendom established. And so there are three big principles. that will order this episode. And I'll give them to you here up front. Three huge principles. Three huge principles. And glorious. And glory. They are both huge and glorious. And those things often go together. You could have 12 principles. 12? Easy. Easy. I was trying to like be self-controlled. I thought there should be like, when you said you were doing the outline, I was like, okay, there's going to be 37. 15 episodes. It's going to be an entire season. Yeah. In season 1A of season one, of season one, of season one. I'm lost. I'm lost, as we all are. Principle one. First principle is that Christian education is not optional. Right? Christian education is not like an optional accessory that you may or may not add to your parenting and be faithful. Christian education is a non-negotiable. We're going to defend that. Number two. And make friends as we do, as usual. Second principle is an application of that first one.

Christian education is not like an optional accessory that you may or may not add to your parenting and be faithful. Christian education is a non-negotiable. We're going to defend that. Number two. And make friends as we do, as usual. Second principle is an application of that first one. The second principle is this. Therefore, Christians should be not. known for starting schools, and particularly starting schools. And here we'll talk about why schools are the thing that I believe we should aim for over time. And we'll talk about Christian education as a principal versus how you land it in different types of education. And the third principle is very practical, basically answering the question, what kind of schools. And to put it simply, we would say, principal three, these schools should be unbought, unapologetically Christian. historically rooted, rigorous, and they should equip students to read well, think well, speak well, write well, and live well. And there will unpack, there were five aspects of that definition. And we'll walk through those briefly here. So the reason I only have three principles is that my third principle includes five more. It's actually five points. You'll notice. It's an accordion folder. It's a very Calvinistic third point. I used to get criticism, believe it or not, listeners. I used to get criticism early in my preaching career that my sermons were too complicated. Can you believe that? I can't believe it. The audacity that people had to bring that criticism.

I used to get criticism early in my preaching career that my sermons were too complicated. Can you believe that? I can't believe it. The audacity that people had to bring that criticism. What's wrong with 27 points with 13 sub points each? I mean, you've silenced them with your just obstinate continuation of your... It's doing the same exact thing. No, yeah, that's true. That's true, listeners. It's true. And everybody who made that criticism... I don't care what these blue-haired freaks say. I'm so sorry. But you haven't changed. But I have a change. Hey, I... Wait, hey. I resemble that remark. Hey, there's only three to eight points here. Three to eight points. All right, moving on. Let's unpack and define and unfold in all of the preacher words, this first principle, and then defend it. And that's simply that Christian education is not optional. So, gentlemen, why shouldn't we allow Christian education to be considered an optional sort of thing? Why would we be willing to say, no, you ought not send your children to the government schools? Because that's a moral, that's a saying. If you should not do something, you're kind of saying that it's often sinned to do it. It's a pretty big statement. So why would we say that? Yeah, I think it's interesting, first of all, that this one to us, I think in our circle, seems obvious. Christian education is not optional. But yet, among Christians, this is one of the most controversial things you could say. Right. You know, we've heard all the objections.

Yeah, I think it's interesting, first of all, that this one to us, I think in our circle, seems obvious. Christian education is not optional. But yet, among Christians, this is one of the most controversial things you could say. Right. You know, we've heard all the objections. You know, I'm sending my kids as missionaries to a public school. Totally. But to answer the... the question, why shouldn't we allow Christian education to be, you know, why is this not optional? I would say because, number one, you can just pragmatically look at the results. Not that that's everything. Sure. Clearly, we have commandments in scripture, Deuteronomy 6, Ephesians 6, other places. They're very, very clear about the responsibility of fathers to rear their children with the Christian education and formation. All for that. But pragmatically, you can simply look at this and say, Christians are getting annihilated in the culture war because of this central issue. I heard somebody say it the other day, Christians reproduce in the bedroom, pagans reproduce in the classroom. Ouch. They're stealing your kids, people. Wake up. That's the bottom line here. Yeah, I think it comes down to how you define the word education. Yeah. You know, because that's where you really get a foundation of misunderstanding. Because if you say, well, education is just the transfer of information from human being to human being. You know, through written word or through a teacher or what have you. So it's just downloading information into your, you. your child. Neutral facts. Yeah, it's just facts. It's just data. You know, just give them data and you're just selecting this data, not that data, you know, in a certain order and sequence.

it's, it's manualisms. It's values. It's loves. It's hates. It's your morals. What you find to be true, good, and beautiful. All of those things are shaped by your teachers, by the books that you read. Yep. And so why is it not optional? It's because this is the front lines of the culture war that you talked about. This is the formation of worship. Yeah. It's Sunday morning. Yes, absolutely that. Absolutely. Sunday morning, worship. But the rest of the week, when you're raising up a human being, like forming a human being in education, forming their loves and their hates, what is good, what is true. What you're doing is you're building a worldview. And so why is it that pagans are winning people, you know, the culture war in the classroom? is because they're forming people into their image. Yeah. Yeah. And I would also say, like, look, the Frankfurt School, Critical Theory, Herbert Marcuso post-World War II, they come to America, this whole new left that's infiltrated college campuses and then public education. Look, if you do nothing else, read the enemy's playbook, look at what they did, look at how they won the culture over generations. It was the long, slow march through the institutions, and they captured education, and now they're very easy. capturing the hearts and minds of children. Yeah. And that's shaping the entire culture, the entire political discourse, all that stuff.

Yeah. And that's shaping the entire culture, the entire political discourse, all that stuff. So I think of nothing else, you look at that and you say, okay, that was the play, it worked really well. Why does it work? Yeah. Why does educating children in a certain worldview and that formation, why does it work so well? Because God has clearly hardwired children to be these very moldable, small people. They're wet concrete. Yeah, exactly. Yep. And so when we look at that, we ought to be smart and we ought to say, well, that worked really well for the enemy. Yeah. And it's because we failed in our covenant duties to do what we as Christians were supposed to be doing. A lot of people got duped. Look, I understand that. Yep. But we didn't do what we were supposed to, and now we need to reclaim that ground. Yeah, you have to start as a Christian with these programmatic principles that inform all of our decision-making. Things like, you know, when you're trying to figure out what your marriage should look like as a Christian, you don't start by saying how, how it's, how, we get along better? How would I get my wife to have sex with me more? If you start there, you're like three quarters of the way through the conversation. It's like starting reading a book on chapter 19. You can ask first, what is marriage? And how do I know what marriage is? What does success look like with this thing? Well, what are our children? What are our children? They're blessings. They're blessings from God. Children are heritage from the Lord, the Psalms say. So you look at that and you say, what are blessings? Well, blessings come with job descriptions in the scriptures. We say this a lot

look like with this thing? Well, what are our children? What are our children? They're blessings. They're blessings from God. Children are heritage from the Lord, the Psalms say. So you look at that and you say, what are blessings? Well, blessings come with job descriptions in the scriptures. We say this a lot at refuge. Blessings come with job descriptions. When God gives you strength, which is a blessing, it comes with the job description. Use your strength to serve God, love your neighbor, basically fulfill the law. When God gives you a wife, that's a blessing. He who finds a wife finds a good thing. And it comes with a job description. Love your wife. Lay your life down for her. So when he gives you children, it comes with a job description. What is that? Well, fathers, raise your children in the Pidea and New Thee. of the Lord Jesus Christ. What does that mean? Well, it means disciple them. Like Dan, you were saying, the job description that come with our children is discipleship. And what you have to realize when you ask the question of education, you have to say, what is education? It's actually a subset of discipleship. Discipleship's the big umbrella, and it includes more than just education. But one of the big headings underneath that umbrella is education. And then you realize that you are not free as a parent. This is why we use the word of ought. You ought. You ought. not send your kids to the government schools. You are not free if you understand the scriptural commandments to send your children to learn most, to learn the nature of reality on most

not send your kids to the government schools. You are not free if you understand the scriptural commandments to send your children to learn most, to learn the nature of reality on most subjects under the sun from pagans. You're not free to do that. Yeah, in a way that they're teaching opposite to the biblical worldview. Yeah. And here's the thing. I love what Doug Wilson says in his case for classical Christian education. He said, the ground for the necessity of Christian schools lies in this very thing that no fact can be known unless it be known in its relationship to God. And once this point is clearly seen, the doubt as to the value of teaching arithmetic in Christian schools falls out of the picture. Of course arithmetic must be taught in a Christian school. It cannot be taught anywhere else. And what he's getting at, and that's end quote, what he's getting at is this. Why does two plus two equal four? Why does light travel at 299,792,458 meters per second in a vacuum. And the Christians are the only ones who can answer those questions. And the answer is because Jesus is Lord. The answer is because he has created all things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. He's before all things and in him all things hold together. And until you can relate any point of fact to that central fact around which everything ought to orbit, you don't know anything. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowing things, the proverb says, of knowledge and of wisdom of knowing

consistent so that it can accomplish his purposes and glorify him. No. And when we, when we just back up and we say, okay, so there's no such thing as a neutral fact. There's no such thing as a neutral education. Therefore, every subject must, if it's to be properly and thoroughly known, it must be known in its relationship to the Lordship of Christ. So then you just go to the positive commands of Scripture and you say, I don't know how anybody could conclude after reading the Old Testament and New Testament positive commands about parenting that God would be perfectly fine with us saying, you know what, six to eight hours a day, five days a week, 100 or 200 days a year, it's totally fine if we send our kids to non-Christians to learn about everything. Other than theology. Well, and it's interesting, too, but I mean, so one of the things that years ago, you know, over a decade ago sold me on, at the time, homeschooling, was, well, I'm looking at, you know, the scriptures and it says, you know, a student will become like a teacher. Okay. Well, what are these teachers like? Yeah. Okay. Typical public schools. I actually went to a teacher's college. And I'm like, well, they're all sleeping around and they live profligate lives and totally immoral. And, you know, these ladies who are like, a lot of them ladies, like barely passing a really easy school, you know, while they're drinking and they're pagans and they hate God. Someone's going to email us.

Someone's going to email us. Sexual immorality. I know a really kind Christian teacher. Yeah, and it's funny, too, because people are like, yeah, but our school is different. And you're like, well, every school in the U.S. is apparently an exception. And here's the question I always ask. Okay, your school's different. Your teachers are different. So your teachers are allowed to teach that math is true because Jesus is Lord. Say Jesus is Lord. Yeah. Are you allowed to do that? Do your teachers say? Are your teachers allowed to say that, you know, this is why history is the way that it is? It's because Jesus is Lord. Like, it's absurd. They are definite, they are legally bound to lie on the most foundational level of education. Yeah, it's exactly right. But they're the exception. You know, student will become like the teacher. What are these teachers like? We were driving by a school the other day. And I saw this on somebody's car in the parking lot. And it said, vaccinate your crime. goblins. Oh, boy. And I was like, oh, boy. What did these people think about my kids and your kids? Oh. They think that your kids are crotch goblins. That's crazy. I hope Ray put some really good sound effect after you say that sense. It's probably going to be gross. Like something gross because it deserves it. I will not skip if there's a gross sound after that. The throw-up sound. That's right. That's right. Disgusting. But think about it. It's like, this is what they think about your kids.

Disgusting. But think about it. It's like, this is what they think about your kids. Yeah. And you want to willingly turn your kids over to them, and then they're going to become like that. Yeah. The lips of the wise spread knowledge, not so the hearts of fools, Proverbs 15, 7. When you understand the way that Proverbs defined a fool and a wise person in that passage, definitionally, if you are sending your children to be instructed by somebody. By fools. You are sending them to have foolishness sewn into their heart. And what happens? when you let, when idiots, this is like simpletons in the Proverbs. Well, Proverbs 1418, the simple inherit folly, but the prudent are crowned with knowledge. Again, the Bible's not this like, there's religious stuff and virtue stuff over here, and then there's knowledge over here, and they're totally hermetically sealed off. They are utterly related. They're vertically integrated. Knowing things properly and knowing what to do about those things, knowledge and wisdom and virtue. Those are all enmeshed in this big vertical stack. And you can't chop out one big layer of it over to the side and say, well, we're going to let all of the pagans deal with this big part of it, all the knowledge stuff. And then we've used this before as an illustration. And then we'll take the seasoning packet of Christianity and sprinkle it over the noodles. Because the noodles are just this neutral brick of carbohydrates. Our Christianity is the MSG and all the delicious stuff. You know, that's Sunday school and family worship.

And then we'll take the seasoning packet of Christianity and sprinkle it over the noodles. Because the noodles are just this neutral brick of carbohydrates. Our Christianity is the MSG and all the delicious stuff. You know, that's Sunday school and family worship. And then it'll suffuse all of the knowledge. And then they'll know. They'll know. They'll know the Lord. Oh, they'll know wisdom. They'll know reality. Like, no, they're getting a false model of it. So I've got a whole bunch of like what abouts and objections. Okay. And so I love it. Just off the top of my head. Yeah. But we've all been to public school and we turned out all right. So Eric, your whole argument of like, well, it's produced bad fruit. I mean, we're not liked very well. But I think we've turned out to be pretty all right. Yeah, I had a lot of repenting to do. Are we all public? season in my life. We're all public schools. Did you? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm K through 14 public school. I'm K through 27 public school. K through 14? My associate's degree. Through my associate's degree, which I just consider high school. Well, then I'm like K through 19 because it took me an extraordinarily long time to get through college. No. I also went to the Southern Seminary, so that's basically also public school. The answer is I would say, oh, out. We're making friends. The answer partly, Dan, to move on and not acknowledge what was you said. Please save your email. I don't want. want to read the email that Eric ignored, about your university, and all that. You'll be like, it'll open with. I emailed Eric, but he didn't answer me. Yes, he didn't. Neither will I. Anyway, okay.

sponsor for this season, Reformation Heritage Books. Reformation Heritage Books offers a large selection of helpful and theological rigorous resources on everything from biblical theology to history to blue-collar family discipleship, the type of library and resources that could make the kind of men and women I just described grounded in the rich heritage of the reformed faith. We'd like to highlight one resource in particular, their family worship Bible guide that presents rich devotional thoughts on all 1,189 chapters of the Bible, including searching questions to promote conversation and to help you in leading your family in such a way as to say with Joshua, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Tap the link in the description of this episode to pick one up today. That's huge. That's huge. So I think that the argument's dumb. Yeah, I do too. And I also, I would say that even in the early 2000s, late 90s when I was going to school, the drastic random. The ramp up of how bad it is now is astronomically worse. Yeah, this is not addition. This is multiplication. Yes. That's how evil grows. Yeah. I mean, in my experience, though, school was terrible, terrible. Still. Yeah. I mean, like one of my buddies, he lost his virginity when he was in sixth grade. Oh. My sixth grade health teacher. To his sixth grade health teacher? No. Oh, okay. I missed heard of this.

To his sixth grade health teacher? No. Oh, okay. I missed heard of this. Because my sixth grade health teacher was a lesbian who had her partner in to help. with the class as like a class helper frequently as she taught us about sex and things like that. Not about, you know, homosexual sex, but that wasn't allowed at that time. Yeah. But anyway, my point is that it's always been terrible. Yeah. Yeah. And we, well, I would say we were the exceptions. So it's kind of like saying, well, I'm just going to send my kids out to run in traffic. Yeah, sure. Some of them will survive. Some of them made it through I-15 without getting mowed down by semis. Therefore, it's generally fine. It's generally a good idea. Look. I'm fine. Yeah, and I would. As another kid gets a mode down behind you. To Brian's point, even in our generation, I would say 95% at least of the people that I went to school with, outright pagans. A lot of them claim to be Christians, but not following the Lord anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, my school did let out early on Wednesdays because of the Catholic, whatever, confirmation and because of youth group. I thought you were going to say because of Packers practice. No. No. No. We would have a late start on Tuesdays for Packers games on Monday. No, we did not. We did not. Anyway, the Packers did win, by the way. I don't know if you saw that. Yeah, by the way, shout out to Andrew Isker. He's been raking you over the coals about them. Yeah, I don't even have. What the heck? I've never even talked to him about it. The Vikings trance the Packers. Yeah. I appreciate you bringing it out. Is football happening right now? Yeah, it is. It's a sport.

The Vikings trance the Packers. Yeah. I appreciate you bringing it out. Is football happening right now? Yeah, it is. It's a sport. Pigskin. Go back to your corner. Go back to your corner. I literally don't know. I was out killing Mountain Beasts. So was I. Yeah. So I didn't even. get to watch the game. I didn't watch it. But anyway, so what, so the next thing I wanted to bring up, by the way, since we're on it, and I've been stalling because I'm trying to figure out what my next objection was. Oh, okay. Yeah. What is it? Was, it seems like if the scriptures were making such, I mean, inconvenient demands on us Christianly educating our children, how come there's not more scriptural direct. commands about that. So two reasons. First of all, it's facile to say that there aren't very many. The Bible is full of them. The Old and New Testament. Almost every time the new test... I feel like I'm being personally attacked. I don't believe this. I know this is not yours. I'm setting this up. I'm like, Dan, you're an idiot. No, I know Dan doesn't believe this. Reason number one, you're an idiot. It's wrong because nearly every time the New Testament directly addresses children, it relates the duty of education and obedience to them. Number one, in the Old Testament. It ties. back to Deuteronomy. Programmatic verse is Deuteronomy 6, which is about instructing your children in the ways of the Lord as you lie down as you get up. And many commentators, and I agree with them, posit that the book of

It ties. back to Deuteronomy. Programmatic verse is Deuteronomy 6, which is about instructing your children in the ways of the Lord as you lie down as you get up. And many commentators, and I agree with them, posit that the book of Proverbs is Solomon's attempt to obey that command as it relates to the formation of his sons, particularly to prepare them for the vocation that God has given their lives, which is ruling, ruling well. So when you just understand that and you start going through the Proverbs, which is one of the most concentrated books of instruction on children and young people. It is full. Again, it tells you over and over and over and over again, not just that certain spiritual duties are related to things you should believe and be taught, but that you should actually know everything, every point of knowledge should be related to the fear of the Lord or you don't know it at all. So to me, there's a slam dunk biblical case that the way we think about education today is stupid, The second thing, though, the second objection I would bring is that the concept of universal education is very new historically, and it's largely the outworking in history of the Protestant doctrine of the priesthood of all believers to education. So prior to about the 1500s, education was nearly exclusively reserved for nobility and clergy. It wasn't expected that most children, especially when

They basically, what we call public education in America, it's actually kind of sad the way it's been hijacked and ruined, really, was the outworking of their law that they knew that Satan loved to deceive people. And so Christians needed to be able to handle the, know the Word of God personally. So they needed to be able to read. And so they required by law, when you had 50 households, you had to hire a teacher to handle reading and writing. And then when you had 100 houses, households in a town, you had to start a grammar school, or you'd be fined like five pounds per year to the next town because they were assuming the next town was going to have to deal with your burden. So of your children being educated. So again, I would say Protestant history is against that idea. Protestants understood the need for universal Christian education. And I would say that the Old and New Testaments have an obvious, obvious call to Christian education as a subset of Christian discipleship for our children. So then, would you say that our salvation is tied then to the way that we educate our children? Because I've heard that as a charge. And I do have an answer. I don't mean to put you on the spot. Well, we're not saved by grace and through faith. We're actually saved through Christian. Oh, man. That's really kidding. Wait a minute. I'm screwed. I'm just kidding. Yeah, just. No, that's classical. Just classical. Yeah. No, we're saved by grace and through faith. This is, this, this, this, it would be like asking. So you're saying, pastor, that

I'm just kidding. Yeah, just. No, that's classical. Just classical. Yeah. No, we're saved by grace and through faith. This is, this, this, this, it would be like asking. So you're saying, pastor, that unrepentant adulterers don't inherit the kingdom of God. That sinning through adultery is is bad. Are you saying we're saved by not sleeping with people we're not married to? I was like, no, duh. We're talking about the commands. We're talking about the law here, not the gospel. Duh. Yeah. This is 101. Yeah. Speaking of You fool 101. Just the connection between the things that justify us and the means God uses us to bring us to that salvation. Yeah. Obviously, we see both things in scripture. Education's important. God calls us to do it. Yeah. And I think sometimes, in a lot of Christian reform camps, like, we can overthink these. Like, it's actually really simple. Raise your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. Okay, got it. Let's do that. Yep. Like, let's just start there and that's the foundational principle. And then we're going to start and build something, which I think gets into principle too. Yes. But like, Christians ought to respond a certain way, particularly in this cultural moment, when they see that need and that call to Christianly educate their children. Yeah. Yeah. Let me wrap up. That's a good segue. Let me wrap up this sexual head into the second principle here. I would say to sum up that we're commanded to disciple our children and clearly, even just from a directly biblical standpoint, education is a subset of discipleship.

head into the second principle here. I would say to sum up that we're commanded to disciple our children and clearly, even just from a directly biblical standpoint, education is a subset of discipleship. Therefore, it is imperative that Christian parents Christianly educate their children, which entails teaching them how every point of knowledge relates to the Lordship of Christ. because our theology tells us that you cannot know anything properly about reality, knowledge, and ethics, about truth, goodness, and beauty, about metaphysics, epistemology, and axiology, about history, math, science, language, philosophy, logic, communication, physics, biology, astronomy, chemistry, mathematics, unless you relate them properly in their relationship to the grounding of all truth, which is the person of Jesus Christ. So you must educate your children Christianly, and that relates to everything. That we're not just this subset of theological education, it relates to every point of knowledge. So point two. Point two. Oh, go ahead, Eric. I'm sorry. Yeah, I just want to ask a practical question. Because you guys, I think, have dealt with this in the church. You're undoubtedly, undoubtedly, if you preach and teach that. Yeah. Going to run into, you know, counseling slash situations with families in the church, are you not? Yeah. People are saying, yeah, but I'm a teacher at a public school or my kids go, but wait a minute, my kids go to public school. I'm just curious if you've seen that, experienced it, and then, and then what is

Yeah. People are saying, yeah, but I'm a teacher at a public school or my kids go, but wait a minute, my kids go to public school. I'm just curious if you've seen that, experienced it, and then, and then what is like, Pastor Lee, what do you do in that situation? What have you done? Yeah, and I would say, we'll give a fuller answer to this in the after-hours show. So become a patron. Nice. And that's our patron-exclusive show we do with every main episode. That would be a great topic for our after-hours. But briefly, because we'll tell more about the history of teaching this in our church, which has been tumultuous. But briefly, I would say, be courageous and preach the Word of God. If you're convinced like we are that this is obviously true in Scripture. then preach it and be willing to lose. When you idolize the growing big fast and famous, as we've talked about in this season quite a bit, you will be, you will be absolutely coward. You'll have a, I was going to say, well, no, I'll say, you'll have like a chain on your testicles. Tugging. It's keeping you from being courageous and it's castrating you. Yeah. Don't go too far or will yank them. I'm serious. When you fear, man, that's the picture. It's like, the fear man is quite the picture. It is quite so much. We think about that. I could have said to something else. Yeah, it's a snare. It's a snare. It's a snare. And it castrates you. One of the things I would say is when you're approaching, if you're a pastor and you're going to teach on this,

But Christians... I'm pretty sure. Put my reputation, my job, and everything. Everything. On the line here. Yeah, that's right. So we started a school. This is no, no mystery. We started St. Brennan's classical Christian Academy. Actually, you can get a lot of good principles that we've written on the website there at St. Brendan's dot Academy. S-A-I-N-T-B-R-E-N-D-A-N-D-S dot Academy. Academy is the one I have a hard time with. A-C-A-D-E-M-Y. So, Christian should be known for starting schools. And I'll just start by saying, and then. I'm going to pitch you guys a question here. Wherever Christians have gone, even in that pre-Reformation time, even though in that pre-Reformation time, it was much more focused on nobility and clergy, everywhere Christians have gone, they've brought education and they've brought schools. Wherever Christian societies have flourished, so have schools. And schools from primary to secondary and beyond, higher education as well. One example would be the old deluder Satan Act, which required schools. You could look at the frontier schools in the West. You could look at, I actually have a little bit of a list here. You could look at the schools that were doing what Augustine described in the fourth century in his book, The Doctrana Christian Teaching. You could look at schools like Cassiodorus led in the 7th century in the Vivarium. You could look at schools like the cathedral schools in the early Middle Ages in Europe, schools like the Puritan schools in the

I actually have a little bit of a list here. You could look at the schools that were doing what Augustine described in the fourth century in his book, The Doctrana Christian Teaching. You could look at schools like Cassiodorus led in the 7th century in the Vivarium. You could look at schools like the cathedral schools in the early Middle Ages in Europe, schools like the Puritan schools in the early American colonies. You could look at schools. You could look at schools like the Cathedral schools in the early Middle Ages. look at schools like the frontier schools in the Settling of the American West. Think Little House in the Prairie. Everywhere Christians have gone, schools have popped up. Not just churches, but schools as well. So the principal as Christians should be known for starting schools. And I want to preface this by saying, I love homeschooling. We homeschooling. We homeschooled. I'm pro homeschool. In fact, like, most people today will not have the option of an excellent Christian school. that they can afford. I mean, we were hoping to change that with St. Brendan's and expanding that model and establishing a model that is rigorous, affordable, not neutral, unbought, all of those things. But what are some of the reasons, gentlemen, why we believe that schools are actually superior to homeschool? I think part of it is just when it comes down to to divisional labor, right? It's maybe the same reason that we would say, why is everybody in your church, not a beef cattle rancher. Well, because it's really hard for everybody to do everything.

in your church, not a beef cattle rancher. Well, because it's really hard for everybody to do everything. And so we've sort of said, well, if we could really pool resources, and, you know, you have people like Headmaster Love who can learn Latin in ways that I don't have time to do on a daily basis or my wife doesn't have to do on a daily basis or, you know, we couldn't, or whatever the issue is, I think it's a way to create a division of labor that serves the whole community. Yeah. That's sort of the pragmatic level. And I also think some of it, too, is just, we've talked about, like with St. Brennan's, the way that it brings the community even closer together in this joint work of education. Yeah. That all the kids that go to the school, along with my boys, you know, we're really rowing in the same direction. We're united through the things that are going on with the school. So I think it becomes a point of contact where one of the things we noticed with homeschooling, which we did for, you know, 10 years or 12 years, I guess it was. was that you kind of get these individual ships just all rowing in the opposite. Not necessarily opposite, but just different directions. Yeah. And it really created this thing where nobody could get together and work together quite well. Yeah. Because everybody's like, each family chooses their own curriculum. Well, then you get in the church community and they're kind of doing the same thing. Mm-hmm. Whereas it's much nicer, actually, now where we can just say there's one direction. Yeah. We're all rowing and we're going there together. And we can do it in a way that we're division of labor really.

Yeah. We're all rowing and we're going there together. And we can do it in a way that we're division of labor really. helps us, yeah, do our own thing well, too, in our vocations. That's one of the benefits of having the body of Christ is that not, like you said, not every member does the same thing, right? Yeah. Not all as a mouth, not all as a hand, whatever. Yeah. It's essentially what you're saying. So God has equipped certain people to teach really well. And you can see that from our teachers. And we've all experienced, like, well, that person's a really gifted teacher. Yep. Even if they're a pagan, they've been gifted with teaching. They're really good at it. Yeah. Like I want my boy. to learn from good teachers. I want them to have, especially men, which I'll talk about in just a moment. Yeah, that's another one. That are just godly, godly men that can really do the job of discipleship and of education well in ways that I can't. So one of my, one of the reasons I would go with schools and not homeschooling. And you can correct this. And so just to make you aware of it, so I just preface this to soften the blow a little bit, is that homeschooling. tends to be very matriarchal and because you have a female led, the wife is usually the one doing most of the education, like the act of education while the man's working. I know there are exceptions, but that's what ends up happening. One of the dangers of that is that women are more easily deceived.

Yeah, people were pretty mad. But I think even people like Vody Bacham have said, hey, you know, from the pro homeschool camp, at the age of 12, every father must fully take over the education of his children. Well, for a lot of us, that simply does not. work. Right. It's practically not feasible. And so one of the things that we've prioritized in our school are male teachers in third and fourth form, which is seventh grade and above. Right when they hit that 12-ish age, we wanted to prioritize male teachers, which is a higher cost proposition, since we're mainly asking men who actually support families and things like that to teach in our school. It has, it's actually, it makes it more difficult, like 100%. But we are so committed to that. Because you're right, not just specialization like you brought up, but fighting the matriarchal bent of education is, I think, I think, one of the biggest opportunities for Christians to chart a course forward that would have better outcomes for the students that they're discipling. Since men, you know, for young women, when they're with mom all the time, they're continually with the model that they want to be conformed to, which is a mother, a mother, a Oiko Despot, a household manager, a mother. Well, the boys, they have to, Leon Podels in his book, the Church Impotent, talks about this a lot. They actually have to, not reject, but they have to say,

Oiko Despot, a household manager, a mother. Well, the boys, they have to, Leon Podels in his book, the Church Impotent, talks about this a lot. They actually have to, not reject, but they have to say, they have to, as an ideal, reject mom and say, my goal is not to become exactly like mom. That would be a failure if I became feminine. They have to kind of reject that as a model, depart out of the home in a sense, and go into the world of men and figure out. what is my model? What am I supposed to become? So that they can then properly reunite to the feminine in marriage. I think one of the other really helpful questions, totally agree with all that, is we need to look at history outside of the last 100 years. It's sort of like the same questions we would have about food production in the U.S. We have become so short-sighted about education that we think this is the way it's always been when, in fact, there's been other generations where things have gone a lot better, say pre-industrial revolution, where, like, from 12 and on, boys were predominantly with their fathers in the world of men. And so I think the historical perspective is also helpful here. Yeah. That, you know, it would be strange, if you look at the last couple thousand years to see that most people were reared from birth to 20 by women. That would be really strange. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You'd see men, young boys going out into the fields to work. Right. Maybe joining in a

strange. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You'd see men, young boys going out into the fields to work. Right. Maybe joining in a dad's vocation earlier. And there'd be much earlier vocational training. Yeah, it's, it's along the lines of the grain of, yeah, of created order and of their development, and of their development, who they are in their identity. So when, like you said, it wouldn't make sense for a 14-year-old boy to be at home with his mom when he is a man. Like he is, he is, he is strength. He has ability. He has knowledge to do work. That's right. And so, so this is an anomaly in human history. And it's just, I mean, if you want to talk about natural law, I mean, that's about as natural as it gets. Yeah. And so that's one of the reasons that I would say that homeschooling has an inherent pitfall in feminizing boys. And if not feminizing boys, then making disenchanted boys that tend to retreat, that don't respect their mother. You know, you said your boys, there was a lot of tension with mom. And it was because of the authority structure. And it was immediately alleviated when that, look, now they go to school and they got two former Air Force guys. Teaching that they absolutely love being around. It's good for them to have the male authority. And they respond differently. Yeah. Just as they do when I'm there. Yeah.

Yeah. Just as they do when I'm there. Yeah. When you look at, I think you could kind of back up and summarize some of these benefits of schooling is that one of the ways we've explained to the church is like, and we love, we have many homeschool family, to be totally clear. And one of our. main goals is to head off any kind of like homeschooling versus school culture in the church. Because just when you start a school and a lot of people are already educating their children Christianly, they're deep into it. They're committed to their model. They're going, they're homeschooling. They've got, you know, kids five years in. And they're not all going to jump on and say, yeah, we'll start, we'll change it all midstream and do the school. We're 100%. We love those families. We're for them. We're explaining why did we start a school instead of just saying, let's keep doing all the homeschooling families and give them resources. Well, we think that you see in communities, Christian communities, where there's a strong school, somewhere around the middle, that you see the culture over time, especially over one, two, three generations grow more like a tree than like a scattered field of lots of different things. You see the school and the church and the home function as this growing cohesive body. And so they grow in theological unity. The school and the church and the home are working together to inculturate. a common theological aim. They grow in cultural unity. The school and the church and the home are working together to live Christianly in every part of what it means to be human. They grow over time then

you have to work through. And a school can really come alongside and help and provide mature Christian theological input that they wouldn't necessarily know where to start. So there's so many benefits It says the school grows up in a community. It gives the potency of an institution. And institutions can be powerful things. Yeah, I think one of the perspectives that most people probably don't understand we're coming from is that we're actually leading a people. Yeah. So as pastors, we're looking at our people, not just like, I'm not just looking at my kids. Like most of the people that we're leading, they look at their family. What's best for their family? God bless them, you know. But what we're doing is we're looking down the quarters of time, 50 years plus, that we're going to be passing this on. Yeah. Christendombo College offers a one-year certificate in the humanities for students who intend to pursue a degree or for students who prefer to begin their chosen occupations upon completion of our program. Older students who never attended college or who went to a college where the humanities were less robust will also find our program stimulating and suitable. Located, steps from the Ohio River, and the town of New Richmond, we're unaccredited in order to remain free to teach as our biblically minded consciences demand. As servants of Christ, we won't wear the yoke of the woke.

Located, steps from the Ohio River, and the town of New Richmond, we're unaccredited in order to remain free to teach as our biblically minded consciences demand. As servants of Christ, we won't wear the yoke of the woke. Instead, we stand on the shoulders of Christianity's giants, not to stew in nostalgia, but to see through the culture wars fall, for the glorious days of a Christendom still to be built. Our exceptional faculty are committed to the historic, biblical foundations of our faith. Come be a part of Christendom Bible College. Visit us on the web at Christendombiblicalcolle.org to learn more. While there, be sure to sign up for our email updates and receive your free three-chapter excerpt of our very own Dr. Frank J. Smith's new book, Race, Church, and Society. So what would be best for our people? Well, it's the same way that we, you know, when we manage the elder team, we want our men to be eating from the same trough, is what we say. We want them to be reading similar things to grow in like-mindedness, to continue to to grow, but to continue to unite. And it's the same thing with our people. We want our students to be brought up in this rigorous, godly Christian culture in education, led by godly men and women, towards a specific direction.

We want our students to be brought up in this rigorous, godly Christian culture in education, led by godly men and women, towards a specific direction. And so it's to unite the people in a lot of ways. as well, because now all of our students have shared worldviews. They have similar experiences. Like you said, they have similar, like a similar culture. And so when we, as we shepherd the flock, we look out and we say, this is the greenest pasture. We think you would be best here. Yep. They're learning how to read the book of scripture and the book of nature and observation from the same guides altogether. They're both the curriculum, the books they're reading and the guides who are the teachers who are taking them through it. So it's not as if it's like one family over here is reading this history curriculum and another one this one. Like they're all learning about the same periods of time from the same sources and they're eating the same food and they're being strengthened by that same material. They're hearing the same message in chapel every morning. They're hearing. Learning to sing the same songs. The rhythms of the day with prayer and tradition. They're learning decorum in uniforms and coming and learning how to interact with elders. They have to keep a schedule.

decorum in uniforms and coming and learning how to interact with elders. They have to keep a schedule. They have to keep a schedule. They're learning how to actually go out of the home and succeed in an environment that's not just the comfortable nest of home. These are all skills that are they're also interacting with peers that are going to become the people that they marry and the people that they're lifelong friends with. The people that they start businesses with. My son and Eric's son, one of his sons, are the two students right now in form two because we have a small school at this point. So they're every day, Walter and Ari are just fast friends, like their butts. And I wouldn't be surprised if these few years, where they might be part of a very small cohort, they'll probably end up doing something together, being friends for life. And these benefits, you can simulate them, you can get them in different ways with homeschooling. And I'm not saying if you don't have a school despair. No, not at all. What we're talking about is christened them, guys. We're talking about If we could build anything over several hundred years, what would we want? And one of the things we're convinced you should want are mature, God-glorifying redwood-style schools. And so lastly, and we're not going to spend like, we could spend hours on these things. We're going to run through this third principle, some of the key elements that we believe should be present in the schools that you aim to start. You could apply these to homeschooling communities or co-ops as well. I think that's also true of them. And they're broadly applicable.

That's right. So, so it, one of the things, I mean, just practically speaking, is that you can discriminate in your hiring practices. That's right. If you remain a private school that does not take any government money. So when the transgender, pink-haired, whatever, comes to your school, and you say, no, title line, they're going to sue you. Yeah. Because you did discriminate in your hiring practices. You take your funding. And let's say you've built a school, and now you've got 30 employees and 400 students, and you absolutely depend for 80% of your revenue on federal or state funding. Your school's done. It's cooked. If next month you say to all the parents, hey, I'm sorry, in order to continue not hiring gays, you have to now pay $800 a month of tuition that you weren't paying. In Utah, there's a charter school model that's, fairly. Very popular. Very, yeah, it's popular, to get funding. And so there have been some that have started that there's claims like, well, it's a Christian school, but they can't say, Jesus Christ is Lord. That's why this all works. You would get your funding pulled right now. Yeah. You would get sued. Yeah. And they failed anyway. Yeah. I think they failed anyway because the Lord hates it when you lie. And so I think the Lord judged them. Like, unapologetically, when we looked at that school model, Capstone was the name of the school. And it was like, we're this Christian classical school. And we were like, no, you're not on principle. And you're lying. And you're lying to parents. And then they closed. And I'm like, you deserve to close. Yeah, it's interesting, too, what happens to those schools over time to the charter schools that I've been a part of.

Lord judged them. Like, unapologetically, when we looked at that school model, Capstone was the name of the school. And it was like, we're this Christian classical school. And we were like, no, you're not on principle. And you're lying. And you're lying to parents. And then they closed. And I'm like, you deserve to close. Yeah, it's interesting, too, what happens to those schools over time to the charter schools that I've been a part of. I actually went to one in high school. But what it is now versus what it was, it was, it was fairly conservative then. Yeah. Had kind of a good start. Now it's identical to any other liberal, liberal, leftist, public school. And it didn't even take 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the other side of. of being unbought, I would say that's equally important that's sometimes forgotten, because the government funding is so big, is that you also have to be unbought in how you fund the school tuition. If you, for example, if you have, let's say, some non-Christian families that like the rigor and the classical nature of your education, and they're like, yeah, we'll pay $1,400 a month per student, let us in, we're not Christians, da-da-da-da-da. Well, no, you have to be able to say, no, this is a Christian school. if you're not a member in good standing in your church, or it's equivalent, like, we interview, we turn families down at our school with regularity. Even families who are saying, no, we'll pay tuition, and we say, no, thank you. Because the culture of our school, it can be easily swayed by 10, 20% non-Christian population that comes in.

Even families who are saying, no, we'll pay tuition, and we say, no, thank you. Because the culture of our school, it can be easily swayed by 10, 20% non-Christian population that comes in. Kids looking at porn on smartphones. They don't believe, they don't bend the need of Christ. They're the cool kids now. They're attracted to the other students who are like, oh, look at those rebels over there. They don't, you know, our parents, they're telling us that our parents are dumb and that Christ is stupid. And no, we just say no. You have to be unbought. And this is why it's so difficult to start schools. But you have to start with this foundational. We will not take money that comes with compromise, no matter what the source is. Yes. Two, unapologetically Christian. The school must be unapologetically Christian. I mean, what are we doing here? Yeah. What's the point of this podcast if this is not true? Right. Like at every point. But, like, we've been a part of homeschool co-ops in the past where it's like, I remember we had a part of one, and they decide to let these Mormon family come in and be a part of the co-op. Uh-huh. And we were like, they're not Christians. And I remember the people were like, yeah, but they say they are. Well, they say they are. I was like, oh, my goodness. But to Brian's point, too, it's a, protection of the kids and other families there. But I think this is the theological side. The other was the. money. This is the theological side of the bar has to be set really high. Yeah.

money. This is the theological side of the bar has to be set really high. Yeah. One of the things stupidly we've done in the Christian circle for, you know, decade to say it's the lowest common denominator. Right. Let's just set the bar so low that almost anyone could make it in. Well, I've been a part of those things. And they're usually garbage pretty quick. Yep. One of the things that we say about St. Brennan's is that St. Brendan's is education for the saints. And meaning we don't want to make pagans who know Latin. We want to make students who know the Lord. If education is a subset of Christian discipleship, we have no interest in attempting to disciple pagans. That also means we look at the fruit of the children and how they're being disciplined and raised at home as well. Because if they start causing some sort of distractions that are not in line with Christian living, with Christian discipleship, I mean, it gives us an opportunity for church discipline, which is just basic counseling. Yeah, coming alongside. Coming alongside and helping. Yep. But then if you have Christians that are outside of our church, we have very little control over that our process. And so anyway, all that to say, like, you can lose the culture within your church fairly quickly. Yeah. So you have to say unapologetically Christian in the, there's no neutrality in any aspect of curriculum. No, we're not going to baptize non-Christian resources and say, no, we're not going to teach evolution. No, we're not. There's a lot of schools that basically replicate the public school model and curriculum. And then again, sprinkle the seasoning.