Redefining Success: The True Goal of Christian Education

him tottering on the edge of Christianity, with his faith held in the balance. His parents prioritized his education, and he was pushed to train with the best. Patrick and Monica made many sacrifices to ensure they expanded upon his innate abilities. His education was rigorous and elite. But for what? That he might eventually secure a high-paying career as a Roman official? Was it worth it for him to gain the world only to lose his soul? Thankfully, for him and for us, Augustine did not continue in his foolish ways. God plucked him out of his misery and brought him to a robust faith in Christ. He became the most eminent, theologian of the late 4th and early 5th centuries. He used his prior training and rhetoric his creative genius to synthesize and interact with the work of the early church fathers. Like Anius emerging from the flames with his father on his back, Augustine bore the weight of the early Christian tradition and carried it into the medieval period. Augustine was the premier theologian that everyone is still fighting over today. Everyone wants to have the weight of Augustine behind their opinions. As we consider the precarious trajectory of his early life. It brings up some important questions. Questions that need answering. What is the goal of education? And specifically for our purposes, what is the goal of Christian education? Is the goal a high-paying job? Is the goal to secure a life

Questions that need answering. What is the goal of education? And specifically for our purposes, what is the goal of Christian education? Is the goal a high-paying job? Is the goal to secure a life of pleasure and ease? Is the goal a full-ride basketball scholarship? Really, what is it? What is the main thing we are aiming at for our children? What will determine success or failure at the end of the day? Back to Augustine, if he had been given the best training the Roman world had to offer. If he was paid well as a teacher of rhetoric or a high-class Roman official, would that have been a success as we consider a Christian Pidea, a Christian education? I would say no. Remember, Christian education is a subset of Christian discipleship. Pidea serves a clear end. Christian education pursues a clear goal. In making disciples, we are aiming for nothing less than the full conversion of our children from death, decay, and misery to life, vibrance, and eternal joy in Jesus Christ. We want to see that metanoia, the change of mind, the turning of the soul from death and darkness to life and light. This is why Paul can say in Galatians 4 that he is in the pain of childbirth until Christ is formed in them. In discipleship, and in Christian education as a major component of that

to life and light. This is why Paul can say in Galatians 4 that he is in the pain of childbirth until Christ is formed in them. In discipleship, and in Christian education as a major component of that discipleship, we are aiming at nothing less than the new man, totally transformed from bottom to top, root to fruit, because they now love the Lord Jesus Christ. This is our aim. This is our target. Anything else falls short of the ultimate goal we have for our children, life in Christ. Welcome to the St. Brendan's podcast, where we exist to equip you with rigorous, practicable, and affordable Christian education for many, generations to come. We all sail for even short. Well, welcome to this episode of the St. Brennan's podcast. I'm one of your host, Eric Kahn, joined today by Headmaster, Pastor Kevin Love. Kevin, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm great. Kevin, we just had our, uh, what year did we just finish? This is three? We just finished our third year. Third year. Kids did great. So we had, it's fun. What do you call it? Recital night? Recitation night. Recitation. everybody did amazingly well schools growing at you made the comment in your is that a commencement speech yes i i was calling it my vision speech in a way because i was trying to to trace you know where have we

everybody did amazingly well schools growing at you made the comment in your is that a commencement speech yes i i was calling it my vision speech in a way because i was trying to to trace you know where have we been where are we at today and where are we going right that was a big part of it but but i love this you know being here i think we were here in the middle of year one one yeah you guys came it's a it's a December so yeah that's right it's amazing how much the school has grown it has well not just in size, because that's one thing, right? You can, you know, count noses in a way. You can say how many kids do we have in the seats? But more than that, we've grown from the inside, right? Maturing as teachers, maturing as an administrative staff, maturing in our culture here at this church and in the school. So that, even more than the numbers, the numbers are, okay, that's good, right? You're helping more people. That's what you're looking at with numbers. But more than that, it's the core. It's the culture. It's the vision of the school and what we're actually trying to aim for. It's super encouraging. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, and kind of the strength of the students, you get students who are, they understand the system. They're more bought in, but parents being bought in as well. Kind of goes to the cold open, I think, with Augustine. And I was thinking about it. I recently was reading bad therapy. And it's talking about Abigail Schreier talking about how psychotherapy has infiltrated youth. But she has this really interesting chapter on education

today in the goals, we're continuing, I guess, with the goals of Christian education. One of the things I want to throw out there, I saw this this week, and I thought it was really interesting because of sort of how it pictures the changing tide of how people are thinking about education. So this was President Bukali in El Salvador. said, quote, every last trace of gender ideology in public schools and wokeness and universities in El Salvador needs to be stamped out. And he said, he says, the point of public education in El Salvador will be to educate, revitalize civilization, religion, and the household. Wow. So I was like, wow, this is crazy because 10 years ago, I don't think people were having this conversation. No. So maybe more now than ever, what we're about to talk about is so pivotal. especially for Christian parents to think about what is the point of this thing that we take for granted, which is education. Was he the one that just recently they had, you know, kind of the gang member flare up and then he sent out the soldiers? Was it this guy? I clicked on his profile. And for his description on Twitter, it just says, Philosopher King. Philosopher King, which is really interesting because that goes back to this idea. Obviously, it's not original with him, but especially made famous through Plato, where you had this, in a way, these students who are going through this Paidea were being trained to be the philosopher king, right? They were in a way you were awaiting

through Plato, where you had this, in a way, these students who are going through this Paidea were being trained to be the philosopher king, right? They were in a way you were awaiting the philosopher king. The man who could come in in in El Salvador and just say, yeah, we're not doing it like that anymore. Oh, like our streets are overrun with gang members. I can solve that. Yeah, no more. I'll solve that by next Monday. You'll be safe in the streets. Don't worry. Yeah, that's great. One of plugs I have to give to, by the way, from recitation night. We had a student do the Declaration Independence, but read in such a fashion that was, it made me think this is sort of what we're aiming at with the good man who can speak well. Yeah. And thinking, well, if you change the way you think about the principles of education, it creates a very different kind of student. And then you're talking about future philosopher kings, future leaders. And you're thinking about that in a very different way than, you know, what the modern education system does. Yeah. Well, and for our school, one thing that's, you know, been really fun just to watch is a student like that who, let's be completely clear, our students were not born expert rhetoricians. No. You know, super eloquent. We don't come out of the womb, though. That's not how it works, right? I believe it was Quintilian who is saying,

clear, our students were not born expert rhetoricians. No. You know, super eloquent. We don't come out of the womb, though. That's not how it works, right? I believe it was Quintilian who is saying, the best way to practice rhetoric is not by reading a bunch of books. It's not. It's by actually practicing it, ground floor level where you're speaking to other people and practicing, you know, landing this kind of imagery versus that metaphor, right? You're learning how to speak on your feet. You're able to receive questions. You're able to pivot depending on how you saw that person make a face. Oh, wait, they didn't understand what I'm saying. I'm actually going to lean into that idea a little bit more. You don't get that just by reading books. You get that through practice. So one thing that we do three times a year is we have our recitation night, right? Which is where you have students from first grade all the way up through 12th grade who have prepared something. Sometimes it's, you know, just a few sentences, a few lines. For that student that you're referring to, it was many lines and it was very well prepared. But that takes practice. I was so proud of him. I was so proud of him. I told him, I think that was the best one of the night. It was unbelievable. So well prepared, but not just in the sense that he could stand there rigid and say it word for word, line for line, but he delivered it well. And you don't get that except through

It was unbelievable. So well prepared, but not just in the sense that he could stand there rigid and say it word for word, line for line, but he delivered it well. And you don't get that except through practice. Yeah, that's so pivotal. And again, as we're thinking about what is the culture shaping forces in the community. It was just a good example to me because I saw that and I was like, this shapes culture. You know who else saw it? The first graders. You know who? Who else saw it? The second graders. Yeah. Third graders. This is what we're aiming at. They all saw an older student do that. So that student is in eighth grade. They saw an eighth grader do that who just crushed it, knocked it out of the park, right? And they say, I want to be like that. They're going to go home and their parents are going to say, did you hear how well he did? You should be like that. We'll get, just wait, give it a few years. That's going to be you. Yeah. Right. That's so wonderful. That's such a good thing. for them to get to see and them to get to emulate, which again goes back to the importance of community in this Pidea, in this cultural endeavor, which is forming a student. It's hard. It takes a lot of work. It's your, it's day by day, but it's also this community mindset in a way where we're all directed towards this one vision, this, this aim. And we're all moving in that direction. And we're helping each other. We're spurring each other on. We're sharpening each other as iron sharpens

education is going to impart a distinctly Christian lens. Again, not just the particular answers, but a whole Christian lens through which they see the world. A Christian education must pursue a Christian scope. That was the one where we talked about Pidea. We're saying we're going to use every tool at our disposal to help shape our children into the image of Christ. Then we said number four. Number four, Christian education appeals to a Christian standard. So that was the one where we're saying, we're raising that flag. And everything in our school, we are going to be able to point to that banner in a way and say, yes, that is the final court of appeal. God's word is the final court of appeal. A Christian education is going to instill that in the students, but it's also going to be part of the curriculum. And then last time we talked Christian education must supply Christian teachers. In other words, your teachers are going to have the most contact with your students during the day. Do you want them to be like the reprobate? Do you want them to be like, again, the purple-haired feminazi who's telling your child be like me? Well, no, you don't want that. So those are the first five things that we've discussed so far. We have today and we have one more. And then that will wrap up our season together. So seven principles total. the thing we need to address today is this problem of what we're actually aiming at. What are we

And then that will wrap up our season together. So seven principles total. the thing we need to address today is this problem of what we're actually aiming at. What are we actually aiming at? We have a main priority for our children. We have this goal, which we're going to say is a Christian goal of actually producing more Christians, right? And our children, to actually have our children grow up to become Christians. There's a danger, though. Because this is such a monumental task, and there's so many different things that you need to do on, you know, on, you know, on, on the way up that mountain, you know, various different paths that you can take, but all pointed towards that same peak, it's easy to lose the forest for the trees. It's easy to lose that goal or to lose sight of that goal when you, when you're down in the weeds and you get so caught up in all of the means and the methods. So the problem that we're confronting today is that we are actually losing our children, Lord willing, not us, right? But culturally, We are losing our children because we are allowing secondary priorities, even tertiary priorities to be elevated to the point that they displace the goal of making disciples of Jesus Christ. So let me give you just an example of that. The most obvious two examples in my mind, and I mentioned

priorities to be elevated to the point that they displace the goal of making disciples of Jesus Christ. So let me give you just an example of that. The most obvious two examples in my mind, and I mentioned this in the cold open as well. One, sports. Sports are not bad. Sports are not an inherent evil in themselves. However, there is a very real sense in which, you know, you can just, you can see it, right? I played football. I wrestled. I played basketball for a time when I was younger. I did track and field when I was younger, but especially in high school, it's football and wrestling. I was very much shaped by this environment. This is not just me talking speculatively, but I was there. I was in it. Many parents will elevate the desire or goal of getting a full-ride scholarship for basketball or for swimming or for football or whatever it is for their child, where that becomes their main way of defining success or failure in life. Like, did you get the scholarship to that D1 school or that D2 school, whatever it is? Did you get that or did you not? Well, they start to point every single aspect of their lives in that direction. All of a sudden, family worship doesn't matter. Honestly, your grades, yeah, they're important, but let's be realistic. You're here to play. You're here to play ball. You're here to play football. That's one example, sports. The other example that

your grades, yeah, they're important, but let's be realistic. You're here to play. You're here to play ball. You're here to play football. That's one example, sports. The other example that just pops up all the time is where we are both by our actions and by our words telling our students that the thing that really matters in life is making buckets of money, right? For you to be successful moving forward, you need to be a doctor, you need to be a lawyer, you need to be an engineer, or you need to be a nurse. Do one of those four things. And you'll be all right, because you'll be making a bunch of money, right? The thing about all of this is that we can lose sight of the fact that we want our kids to be Christians. That that's actually the main goal of a Christian Pidea is that we would educate our children in such a way that they would become Christians. That has to be our principle in fact. So let's just get to it. Principle number six is Christian education must aim at a Christian goal. Christian education must aim at a Christian goal. So in the macro, when you're looking at this from a high level, in an ultimate sense, we are making disciples of Jesus Christ. When you're in public school, honestly, just when you're in the culture around, they want you to be embarrassed to say that. They want you to say something like, well, yeah, I'm trying to make my kids Christians. They're going to

And it's interesting, too, because as you mentioned these, you know, sports and career, it's sort of like, Jesus' command, seek first the kingdom, and all these things will be added to you. You know, originally sports were created largely like the YMCA, young Christian men's association. It was like, let's give our boys some physical things to do, build teamwork and all the values of Christendom. But then we often realize, like, today, that's not what they have become. And so, you know, we have a wrestling program that you facilitate. But it has to fit within this broader aim. And that's the point, right? Not that second. secondary goals or tertiary goals are bad. They're certainly not, but when they become the primary goal. Well, I think that means you also have to reevaluate them. So like, you know, if you had a household where let's say you have a couple kids and you have these incredible careers and you're chasing the dollar and you're chasing the scholarship, is that, you know, I'll use this phrase, is that winning as a Christian in this, in what we're trying to aim at? Well, not necessarily. In fact, if it's not a part of this broader aim to form Christian disciples, then the answer is just no. Yeah, you bring up an excellent point, actually. As we're considering this, there are seasons in life, too.

In fact, if it's not a part of this broader aim to form Christian disciples, then the answer is just no. Yeah, you bring up an excellent point, actually. As we're considering this, there are seasons in life, too. Mm-hmm. We have to recognize that. There have been, just for me, speaking personally and practically, there have been very busy seasons of life where you're recognizing that this cannot remain forever. Mm-hmm. It cannot stay like this. So, so that's just part of life. life. So you recognize that, but you have to, the way you re-correct from that is you are reminding yourself in a very principled way, what is my goal, what am I doing, and how are my actions contributing towards that goal, or taking away from it? You know, which actions here in my life or habits or priorities in my life are actually detracting from that main goal, especially if God has blessed you with children to steward? Well, you actually have a responsibility to them. You know, if you didn't have those children, let's say you have five kids. If you didn't have those five kids, your life would look very different. I recognize that. We can fully acknowledge that. But you do have those children, which means you have the responsibilities that go with that as well. And so you're going to have to continually be reshaping and interrogating your priorities in your life to see in this season of life, is this a forever thing?

the responsibilities that go with that as well. And so you're going to have to continually be reshaping and interrogating your priorities in your life to see in this season of life, is this a forever thing? Is this a long-term thing? Is this a very short-term thing to get me to this goal? But we're going to have to dial it back. We know that. That's important just for any family. Well, and I think the evaluation piece is so important because you'll inherit all these things from the culture around you. And as Christians, what we have to do is step back and say, yeah, maybe it would be really hard to say no to some of these things. But we have to look at them and say, wait, does this fit our principle? And so one of them could be if we just automatically assume, you know, how many, even in the the conservative Christian camp, how many people I've talked to and they're like, yeah, we need more women in politics. We need more women CEOs. We need, we need, we need, we need. And you go back and you're like, wait a minute, is that the goal for our girls? And so to change it then, to change what we're aiming at means that practically, you're going to have a lot of tough conversations with families. You're going to have a lot of tough conversations with students. And, you know, think about the girls in our school. Are we telling them, hey, I want you to go be a boss, babe, and crush it in the political arena. Like, are we saying that to our girls? Or are we saying with Paul that the primary goal is motherhood? We still believe in education for girls. Obviously, we have a school for them. Yeah. But their aim isn't

Like, are we saying that to our girls? Or are we saying with Paul that the primary goal is motherhood? We still believe in education for girls. Obviously, we have a school for them. Yeah. But their aim isn't going to be the same as a man who's a provider. No, it's different. And so that means that culturally, this is, you know, the Harrison Bucker thing recently, I'm sure you saw that, where he's telling college-educated women, the best you can do is be a mother. And there's a big old curfuffle about that. Right. But, but like, as Christians, we just have to be prepared that when we state our principles and then we state the practical that flows out of them, the culture is going to think you're crazy, you're weird, you know, misogynistic, whatever. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they'll give you all the labels. You have to have thick skin against that and be courageous. Yeah, you bring up a great point. Oftentimes, these things are pretty simple. Simple, not easy, right? Pretty simple because it's a principled thing that we are saying, we have to just be prepared for that conversation. You have to be prepared to, you know, let's say you're looking again at your life and you're saying, well, man, it's, it's like six days a week with this soccer program. I don't know if that really fits in with our families' goals. We miss church for tournaments. Yeah, yeah. So looking at that and saying, wait, that, that's actually not contributing towards the goal. That's actually taken away from it. That that sports program has grown a mind of its own now that you're in the competitively. league and you're traveling and all that kind of stuff. You might look at that and say, okay,

you know, me being one of them, the Christians were there at the football game. Interesting. Super interesting, right? Yeah, and I think that's, that's part of it. Like, you're going to have to adopt this, think of like, the way ghetto communities have survived in a negative culture, a culture that's negative against them is, like, you've got to be okay being weird. Yeah, and that's just being principled. That's just, that's just what it is being principled. Of course the people are going to hate you. Of course the culture is going to hate you. When you're saying, no, I reject your fundamental principles. I'm following this principle instead. If you can recognize that and recognize that it just, that just comes with the territory of taking a principled stand, it should steal you, S-T-E-E-E-L. It should steal you to strengthen you to give you that kind of this is really what it boils down to in this educational conversation is that if we can recognize that the main goal is that I want my child, I want my children to be Christians, and that's what I'm training them for, then when they, you know, you face the backlash, you can just say it straight-faced without blushing. Oh, no, I actually am trying to have my children become disciples of Jesus Christ. I'm walking alongside them. Yes, that's on purpose. And no, I don't think that's weird. I think that's actually right. You have to be able to say that. Yeah. And there are going to come times when, when that's weird with family members

purpose. And no, I don't think that's weird. I think that's actually right. You have to be able to say that. Yeah. And there are going to come times when, when that's weird with family members that are like, wait, you do, you do like Christian education? What about two plus two equals four? Right? We've had that conversation. When you can say, oh, oh, yeah, no, I think that all, and I really do mean all. I think that all of the treasures of knowledge and of wisdom are hidden in Christ. Yeah, it's such a good conversation. Kevin, one of the things that we often hear as sort of an objection, I think when we're trying to aim at making our children Christian, and we're setting up our life around that, and there's all these practical implications. Number one, you'll be charged with legalism. Always. Wanting to obey Christ's commands will be legalism, which I love, by the way, because so many people were quoting, I think, from John 14 at recital night, recitation. And it was like, whoever loves me obeys my commands. And I was, like, this is actually incredibly simple. It's not legalism to want to obey. Yeah, first, John is all about that. But people will always charge with education. So you think that your education is a formula, and it automatically makes people Christians. Yeah. I mean, I get it. I get the pushback. And in an ultimate sense, you can't just make somebody a Christian. Right. The Holy Spirit is like the wind, blows where it will. You have to have the new birth. Gotcha. Right. Like somebody,

And in an ultimate sense, you can't just make somebody a Christian. Right. The Holy Spirit is like the wind, blows where it will. You have to have the new birth. Gotcha. Right. Like somebody, will not be regenerate because I said, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's not how it works. Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians 3, where he says, I planted, Apollos watered, God gave the growth. I am not responsible for that. I can't do that. Okay. So acknowledging all of those objections, gotcha. Still, God does work through means. And covenant obligation that he commands. Yes, right? You have to see both of those together. Yes, we have a duty. So just, period, you need to be doing this. You have a duty to raise your children up in the Pidea and Newthesia of the Lord, right? Okay. So you have a duty there. But then also, I believe that the gospel is potent. I also believe in a God. I'm not a hyper-Calvinist. I also believe in a God who works through means. Yeah, I think just very simply of, you know, like Romans chapter 10, Paul says, you know, how will they be saved? Because God sends a preacher. And by, you know, through faith. How will they hear? And all those things. But God's appointed the means and the covenant structure. So it's like, as you're going to obey that, you're trusting in the Lord. And you're saying, Lord, please bless what we're doing. You have to give the growth, regenerate hearts, all that. Acknowledging all that. Yeah. But we're also told even in Proverbs, right,

saying, Lord, please bless what we're doing. You have to give the growth, regenerate hearts, all that. Acknowledging all that. Yeah. But we're also told even in Proverbs, right, train a child up in the way he should go. He will not soon depart from it. Well, what does that mean if we are going to fall in the ditch on the other side and say, but, but you can't do anything about that. God, God changed the heart. Okay. Well, yeah, acknowledging that, yes, but we're also told at another place in God's divinely inspired word that if you train a child up in the way that he should go, he will not soon depart from it. Okay. Another thing that's really interesting just as, you know, I've thought about this pastorally, of course, we are told one of the primary qualifications for being a pastor is that your household is in order, specifically drilling down all the way to the point that your children are faithful. Some would say believing, right, even if you take the broader scope, not the narrower scope, and you were to say that your children at least are, you know, walking in obedience, even if you're not saying they're regenerate or something like that. Even if you were to say that, it's obviously not a shot in the dark. Or else, how could that be a requirement for a pastor to say that he manages his own household well? and that his children are believing. Yeah, I think Pastor Brian has said this, and I think it's really helpful. The way that the modern Christian church in America reads

he's our king. He's our head. And so that's where we go. Well, same with families. And then you see the way that the covenant structure works. And you're absolutely right that I would say, particularly in the South, like when I was going to seminary in the South, you would always have things like, well, pastor's kids are notoriously wild. Yeah. And but then you have to ask that question. Well, why is that the expectation? Yeah. You know, and you would think, well, actually, it's a disqualification biblically. So there's got to be a different reality that we should be aiming at. at covenantally. And not not thinking of it like a formula. Covenants aren't formulas, but they are real promises with real power. Let me, let me ask you about this. As you're thinking about a father who is leading in a home has children, what is he doing different? Let's say, let's say it's a father fully bought in, Christian, strong man. What is he doing differently? What is the father and the mother as a team? What are they doing differently that is helping secure children growing up and taking on these covenantal obligations themselves, adopting it themselves and saying, no, I am a Christian. I'm going to follow in the way of my father and my mother, and I am going to raise my children up in the Pidea and New Thees of the Lord. What are they doing differently maybe than just kind of the watered down culture that we have today? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot you could say, but I think fundamentally, if you look at it, one of the things I'll always tell, especially young,

watered down culture that we have today? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot you could say, but I think fundamentally, if you look at it, one of the things I'll always tell, especially young, young families, young mothers and fathers, people starting their families, your children will love what you love. And so one of the things that you're guarding against, as you said, is hypocrisy. Meaning, if you tell your kids, like, you need to go to Sunday school, you need to go to church, you need to do the catechism, but then every time you lead in it, you grumble, and you actually hate it. You can't expect them to love what you don't love. So what I found is, you know, one of the key things I'll say to families is, especially to fathers and mothers, make sure, look, your kids know you're a sinner. Yeah. What they really need to see is repentance. And so when you sin, repent and repent to them, that will cut hypocrisy off at the pass. So I think, you know, being cognizant too of like, if you're telling your kids, like, you know, the Lord's Day is for worship and fellowship with God's people. But what you really love is to cut out a church early and go watch the game. Yeah, they see it. They see that. They know that. They know what dad loves. Yeah, there's no hiding there. And so I think it starts with ourselves as modeling. Yeah, in modeling and imitation. Do we really love these things? Do we love family worship? Yeah. Do we rejoice at singing with God's people in Psalms sing and Sunday morning? You know,

Yeah, in modeling and imitation. Do we really love these things? Do we love family worship? Yeah. Do we rejoice at singing with God's people in Psalms sing and Sunday morning? You know, the same deal. You'd say to your, you know, if you see kids, who are just mouthing the words during Sunday worship. Yeah. I want to look at mom and dad. What do they do? Why? And generally speaking, if mom and dad are robustly singing their hearts out, yeah, guess what? Yeah. The kids see that and they're like, that's a glory. I want to chase that glory. Yeah. So I think a lot of these are just really simple, you know, leading in family worship and catechism joyfully, gladly, loving it, being part of the life of the body. I think that's one of the key things that, you know, quote unquote, works about our culture here. I have never been a part of a church where, like, Tuesday psalm sing is a good example. People want to be there. Yeah. The parents want to be there. It's not just an obligation that you're forced to go to and you're getting dragged to. That's right. So making sure that your own heart is, you know, not being conform to the world, but transformed by the light of scripture. Making sure that you're leading in your devotions and Bible reading, you know, you personally, but also with the family. Yeah. And making sure that the truth is transforming you. And then I always equate it to, especially in leadership, you remember Moses met with the Lord, his face shone with the glory of God. And then he came down

And making sure that the truth is transforming you. And then I always equate it to, especially in leadership, you remember Moses met with the Lord, his face shone with the glory of God. And then he came down and all the people, to the point that he had to put a veil on, all the people saw that. Yeah. So if you are meeting with the Lord in prayer regularly, if you are being transformed by the Word of God, if you are partaking of communion and, you know, receiving Christ, it's like your people ought to see that intrinsically in your face. You know, the face in scriptures, your countenance, right? This is a big deal that your people see the glory coming off of you because you've been with the Lord, you know the Lord, that sort of thing. And then, yeah, I just think as you, as you walk those principles out, those are your foundation pieces for household life. Then you get into things like discipline. You know, we're told in Proverbs that the parent who doesn't discipline his child with the rod hates his child. Yeah. Abby Schreyer has this interesting chapter. Uh-oh. That's called Spare the Rod, drug the child. Wow. And I was like, wow. Even a secular Jew. Yeah, gets it. Could pick up on, maybe we ought to go back to physical discipline. You're like, hmm, maybe God's word was correct. Yeah. So I think those are a lot of the cornerstones. And then you're going to have to figure out, like we're talking about here, all these practicals of what is our schedule like?

As I'm taking, I'm hearing this for the first time or at least hearing this in a a sober way for the first time. And I'm just thinking, wow, I really, I haven't been doing these things. Is there, you know, have I lost all hope at this point? Or are these things like PhD level kind of works? Yeah, no, I think it's the really great thing about it. And God is so merciful in this that when people will humbly repent and turn to the Lord, you think about Solomon and what's said about the temple, no matter how far you've fallen, no matter how many idols you've chased, if my people would turn and repent and seek my face, I would restore my covenant blessing to them. I would hear their prayers. And so I think even if it's late in the game for you, we've seen this a number of times. Start today. You know, start reworking your schedule, start having dinners together, start cutting back on things. You know, if your wife is working a full-time job, try to get her in the home. Think through the education question, obviously. But just starting with family worship and prayer in God's word. We try to give simple tools. our church, like the family worship Bible guide from Reformation Heritage. Just simple things where you can read through the scripture for that day. Do a quick lesson with your kids. Ask them some questions. Pray with them. Yeah. Let them see that you love them. It's those habits. It's the small habits. It doesn't need to be crazy complex. No. In fact, simple. I mean, I remember Scott Brown's saying,

questions. Pray with them. Yeah. Let them see that you love them. It's those habits. It's the small habits. It doesn't need to be crazy complex. No. In fact, simple. I mean, I remember Scott Brown's saying, like, people are always asked like, oh, family worship is so hard. What do I do? And he's like, it's not hard. Read a passage. Pray with your piece. people sing the doxology. Start there. Really easy. Be consistent. If little four-year-olds can learn how to sing the doxology, you can. Yeah. You know. So I think just starting simple with those things and with true repentance. And you'll see, it's amazing how quickly you'll see families turn. Yeah. I mean, God is faithful. God is merciful. God is merciful to us. He blesses to the thousandth generation. He only curses to the fourth. Right. That is God in his. His mercy, seeing a family through the work of His Holy Spirit, totally turned things around for their generations. That they would all follow the Lord, right? That's what we're aiming at. We're aiming at generations. I'm not just looking at this short-sightedly. I'm not just trying to say, hey, go get the football scholarship. I'm saying, before all else, I want my children to be Christians. I want my grandchildren to be Christians. I want my great-grandchildren be Christians because I know that that is going to be the best thing for them at the end of the day. And that's exactly what God wants. Yeah. And you're absolutely right. And the other piece I would throw in here is like, if you're a father, especially fathers and mothers, but especially fathers,

at the end of the day. And that's exactly what God wants. Yeah. And you're absolutely right. And the other piece I would throw in here is like, if you're a father, especially fathers and mothers, but especially fathers, making sure that you're reading the kind of things that would, like God works through your conscience and your conviction and through your mind. So for a lot of guys, I've talked to so many people in the 1689 and in our camp, 1689 reformed. It's books like Voddy Bakum, like family driven faith. Like, if you can pick up one of those books and read it and have your mind changed and your heart changed, you start to see the value of the covenant household. Yeah. And then you go, oh, wait a minute. We need to make some changes. Well, and those things that you before devalued, it may be accidentally. You know, it's like, hey, that's not my role in the home, right? I need to be out making the money. And that's so that's very valuable time. You know, reading to the kids, that that's not valuable. It's not making the money. Well, once you start to reshape how you are. spending your time and the value of your own children themselves, but then also your role in your children's life, you can look at that time and say, that's time well spent. I read to my kids this morning. I read to my kids yesterday. And it was, one, it was a fun book. So that's fun for me. But for them, their father being present, reading to them, making sure that they're listening attentively and us doing this as a family. That was time well spent. Yeah. And I mean, you can even look at data on this. But

their father being present, reading to them, making sure that they're listening attentively and us doing this as a family. That was time well spent. Yeah. And I mean, you can even look at data on this. But like, you'll have all these family council type nonprofit organizations. And they all pretty much say the same thing. I think in like 85% of the cases, whatever the father does, that's what the family. Like, so if a father's a believing Christian faithfully goes to church, etc., his kids will be. So just think of that, covenantally, and say, okay, so I need to do those things joyfully. Yes. You know, there will be some people, I think we've known a lot of them in the homeschooling communities, especially across the years where it's like, super active and like, like, homeschool sporting and homeschool this and homeschool that. I'm like, I always ask him, I'm like, cool, where do you go to church? Well, we kind of float around and we do some different stuff. And you're kind of like, your kids don't need that. Yeah, priorities. Which one? They need to see you, like, be a member, be participating in the life of the body. If you don't have a church near you, find one. Yeah, rooted and stable. Yeah. You're not just telling them that that's important. You're actually showing them that that's important. And that's, and that goes for the father, too, who can submit to other men, to other pastors, qualified men, and say, and you should too. Yeah, that's right. That's actually for our good. Exactly. I think next I'd like to maybe just discuss more concretely, more specifically, some goals that help us point towards that ultimate goal of

and wrong, for example. We're looking at maturity and manners. How does, does the, does the young boy open the door for the young lady to let her walk in first. That all goes back to virtue, the virtue of the young man or woman that we are trying to graduate. But then we also address wisdom. We don't want them just to be knowledgeable. We don't want them just to be good at analysis. We want them to reason well. And we want them to be trained in the scriptures. They are going to be, like I said before, they are going to be so much better equipped than we were because they're going to be so thoroughly trained in the scriptures. They're learning Greek. They're learning Latin. They're going to go back to the original language. By the time that they graduate, they will be so firmly rooted in the Bible that they will be able to be a help to other people, which comes back to our third point, not just virtuous, not just wise, but eloquent. The reason the eloquence is important is because you being able to speak persuasively, assuming that you are virtuous and wise, right? Because that can be a very bad thing, too. Hitler was persuasive. for example. Someone who is virtuous and wise because they're Christians and is now also eloquent can help persuade other people. Like Apollos, right? Apollos was a very gifted speaker and skilled in the

for example. Someone who is virtuous and wise because they're Christians and is now also eloquent can help persuade other people. Like Apollos, right? Apollos was a very gifted speaker and skilled in the word of God. That's actually a magnificent good for all of the people around him because not only can he persuade them well, but he can persuade them to the right things. Well, it's interesting, too. I had a Hardman podcast, I had Alex Pekas. Okay. Who is, I think he went to, it's like Harvard or Yale has a degree in philosophy from there. But now he teaches in a, you know, Christian sense, but teaches Greco-Roman rhetorical. Really? Technique. Yeah. And what's interesting about this is he said, yeah, studying rhetoric and then hearing Paul say, I'm not one who's like, you know, Apollus is great. And I, you know, I'm not. He goes, when you read Paul, he said, Paul is a master of rhetoric, which actually makes sense given his education in kind of all these worlds of like the Roman, obviously Greek thought, and then Jewish thought. So then you think about it, it's like, God and his providence picked Paul like for a reason. Yeah. This guy was persuasive. The book of Romans, if you don't think Paul

like for a reason. Yeah. This guy was persuasive. The book of Romans, if you don't think Paul knows how to reason, I mean, the greatest thinkers of all time in Western civilization has have said, like Peter did, Paul's hard. He's hard to read. And it's not because it's sloppy or bad. Yeah. It's because it's so deep. And it's so well thought out. I also think the wisdom one is interesting because wisdom, I've always kind of defined as like the skill of applying principles to life. Mm-hmm. So when you think about it, like, think about our kids, they're growing up, seeing their parents work through, okay, we got to get mom home, we got to start a school. We're thinking through culture and psalm singing and liturgy and worship a certain way. For our kids, it won't be strange when they're young adults. They spend a lifetime thinking through those things alongside us in hearing it. So it's also, as you're applying wisdom, your kids are seeing you do that so that, you know, let's say, you know, my oldest, he gets married. He's not going to go, oh, man, what is family worship? Like, I have to reorder my whole life now. He's just going to assume,

what is family worship? Like, I have to reorder my whole life now. He's just going to assume, Like, he's already seen it for 20 years before that. That's a first principle. Like, we do that. Or like going to church isn't going to be like a life-altering thing because it's like we've already built our life on that. Yeah. You know. Yeah. You bring up a really important point with wisdom. Wisdom, when we're using it, is not a pure theory. That is amoral. That's not wisdom. Wisdom is more like the Shemitic. Understand, your hardest Voss talks about this. It's more like the shemitic. It's more like the shemitic. understanding of wisdom, which is more rooted. It's knowledge that makes contact with the ground in a way. So it does bleed into application. Again, going back to the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Well, that kind of knowledge, if you fear the Lord, is going to play out all the way out to your fingertips, right? It's going to affect your practical application as well. So for our students, yes, we do want them to become Christians.

discussion of practically how to walk this out? Yeah, I think maybe a big one is just, again, with everything that we've been saying, we're not shooting for a low vision. We're shooting for a robust, a very robust Christian education. You want them surrounded by other robust Christian Christian, so you need to be in a covenant community as well, embracing the means of grace, like you were talking about before, reading your Bible, actually showing up for church on Sundays, making that a priority, father leading family worship at home, restoring that liturgy of the home. The encouragement with all of this, though, is if you are taking this sober assessment and you're saying, way, I lack in this area, or I haven't been prioritizing my child's Christian education, or that final goal of, no, I unapologetically want them to become a Christian. That's what I'm aiming at. If that's you today, and you are hearing that, repentance is right there, where you can say, okay, I haven't been doing that. Lord, help me, forgive me, I am going to do this moving forward. Please help me. Please, please give me this wisdom. Help me apply this. Please work in my child's heart that they would even forgive me for this and that they would thoroughly embrace this. that they would want to become Christians themselves. But that's not going to happen without repentance. It's not going to happen without you then turning the ship around and modeling it as well

that they would want to become Christians themselves. But that's not going to happen without repentance. It's not going to happen without you then turning the ship around and modeling it as well in covenant community. But that would be my encouragement for all of you is to continue in this way, to continue to equip your children, both for their good and for God's glory. Yeah, I think that's really helpful, Kevin. I was thinking as you were talking about that, Deuteronomy 3014, it says, but the word is very near you. it is in your mouth and in your heart so that you can do it. And I think just encouraging people with that, as you said. Of course, Paul will quote that in Romans 10, I believe. But same deal. God has been merciful. Here it is. And by faith, walk it out. Amen. Kevin, been a great conversation. Do you want to encourage people to check out the St. Brennan's podcast Patreon page. I know there's been a lot of exciting content there. You get exclusive content, early access content. What are some of the things that you guys have been putting up lately? Yeah, so we've been doing the, we've been continuing the captain's log that we had previously recorded, Pastor Sovey and then, and me. We had put these out before. Those are getting posted every two weeks, I believe, on there. I am also officially in summertime mode, which means I'm going to be doing some more writing, putting out some more resources for you. Just recently, I put up the entrance exams that I used for our students coming into the school.

I am also officially in summertime mode, which means I'm going to be doing some more writing, putting out some more resources for you. Just recently, I put up the entrance exams that I used for our students coming into the school. I will also put up our application there too. So for anyone who's thinking about starting this out with a private school trying to follow our model, you'll have that available. You can you can ask any questions as you're reading through it. But we will continue to have more resources coming out. I've been getting this request a lot recently. So I'll probably posted within the next week or so for me to return with that, the document of basically the what do I do before kind of the preschool years, incredibly helpful. It really is. I've talked through this with multiple families in our own church. But little things that you can be doing. Like you were just talking about discipline with your kids. Well, what do I do for a one-year-old? Okay, let's talk about that. Just concretely, what can I, they're only, you know, one or two years old, but I'm already thinking towards St. Brendan's, or I'm already thinking towards what are we going to be doing for school in the future. Is there anything I can be doing now? Okay, well, I address that, right? So that's going to be back up on there. And then if there's anything else that you guys come across, that you guys maybe want some more resources for or a question answered. Just let me know. You can reach out on the Patreon or on any of the socials, and I'd be glad to help. Awesome. Well, we definitely encourage people to check that out. We'll include links in the show notes for the St. Brennan's podcast, Patreon channel,

Patreon or on any of the socials, and I'd be glad to help. Awesome. Well, we definitely encourage people to check that out. We'll include links in the show notes for the St. Brennan's podcast, Patreon channel, a good community, lots of Q&A going on there. And finally, we do want to encourage people. It's not too late. You can join us at the new Kristen Press conference. Kevin, you'll be there. Will it be available by the time that this post? Probably not. When is, uh, but, but, hey, when do you plan on posting it? Uh, that will be in four weeks. So maybe you guys, you guys, you guys miss it. Hey, we'll see you in 2025. 2025, you can pre-order your tickets. Just change the message. For next year, Kevin will be there also. Awesome. Well, it's been great show. Kevin. Thank you so much. Appreciate all our listeners. And we will catch you guys all on the next episode. and we sail for Eden's shores and we sail for shore and we sail for shores.