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Welcome to Bright Hearth, a podcast devoted to recovering the lost arts of homemaking and the productive Christian household with Brian and Lexy Sauvé. In this episode, Brian and Lexy continue the "On Being Human" series with a look at the spirit the Christian must bring to their vocations to bear good fruit and grow in skill at what God has given them to do.

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Join us here in Ogden this June for our annual New Christenum Press conference. This year's theme, The War for Normal, features a great lineup of speakers, as well as a whole bunch of fun events to make new friends with like-minded saints. Tickets are more affordable than ever this year, with a brand new family pass covering your entire household for one low price. Head to newchristinempress.com slash 2026 for tickets and more information. This episode is brought to you by Indigo Sundry Soap Company. Clean soap, cleaner body. Well, Bright-Harthers, you know the drill here in our On Being Human series. We've been talking about four aspects of life where a man or a woman can grow and improve and become more fruitful as a result. And those have been the physical, the spiritual, the social, and the vocational. We are deep into that last category now as we round out this series over the next few episodes talking about the vocational. Last week, we talked about the central vocation of the woman as the helper of her husband. husband, and of all of the many tributaries of that good calling and design from God. With that entry in the series, we've now talked about what vocations are, as well as the central vocations of the husband, the man, and the wife, and the woman in the productive Christian life and household. Now we're going to turn to some big principles that will hopefully be of help in both

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vocations of the husband, the man, and the wife, and the woman in the productive Christian life and household. Now we're going to turn to some big principles that will hopefully be of help in both of those categories for the man and the woman in bearing good fruit in their different vocation. So this episode is really about mindset. It's about the kind of spirit to take to those vocations, agency, patience, grit, and a lot more. So we hope this episode really spurs you further up and further in when it comes to all of the central things in your life, those central duties and callings from God that he's put there and the good works that he's put in front of you to walk in day by day in your life. So join us in this episode of BrightHearth as we talk about the spirit, a man, and a woman must bring to their God-given vocations. Welcome back to Brayhartth, everybody. We are here and spirited. We are spirited. Oh, so spirited. We were, Lexi was just asking if I would explain another short video to her. That's what was happening. No, I was being explained to against my wisdom about another Alex Jones. No, so she could understand a meme reference that I made. She looked at me with dewy eyes and she said, can you. you please explain that. Have you ever listened to an Alex Jones episode or an interview

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No, so she could understand a meme reference that I made. She looked at me with dewy eyes and she said, can you. you please explain that. Have you ever listened to an Alex Jones episode or an interview or anything with him? Or is it only just like through memes? I've seen like five memes. The Justin Beebler clip was phenomenal. I have actually listened to Alex Jones. Bebler. But you didn't get my vampire reference. So. I mean, I did. I immediately thought of the interview I listened to him make about the documentary that he made that was taken down. Which one of us is really the connoisseur, would you say? I don't know if I want to be known as. an Alex Jones connoisse. I don't know if I do either, but memes are kind of like the distillation of someone's thought. Okay. Put into really the highest form of media. So you consumed the Cliff Notes version is what you're saying? No, no, no, no. More like the, more like the apotheosis of the medium. You know what I mean? There's really no way of making it sound intellectual. I just thought it's funny. Okay, guys, that's not, believe it or not, this episode of Brightheart is not about Alex Jones memes or Clems or Clems. lips. Nor do I really recommend them necessarily. Hold up. You literally said on Brightheart in the last few months. Go ahead. One of Alex Jones diatrives was so life changing for you. And you were being serious. I challenge anybody to wake up in the morning and watch his two minute rant

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lips. Nor do I really recommend them necessarily. Hold up. You literally said on Brightheart in the last few months. Go ahead. One of Alex Jones diatrives was so life changing for you. And you were being serious. I challenge anybody to wake up in the morning and watch his two minute rant about Magellan and Justin Buebler and not be a better person. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, we need a little more Alex Jones autists. You know what? There's going to be an episode someday where the whole cold opens just going to be that clip. The thing is, we don't fly our conspiracy flags. I try not to. I actually pretend when people ask me in real life, I'm like, I just pretend like I don't know what they're talking about with conspiracies because I don't even want to like, I don't even want to let it all out there. You're like the meme of the stick, the stick people dancing in the room and they're like, the one in the corner is like they don't know I'm a niche micro-in or internet celebrity. I'm not. You're thinking in your head. They don't know that I know all about these conspiracies. They just figured out about. And then actually the other people dancing are their thought bubble says we totally know that Lexi already knows all about this. She's just pretending. I don't know. I just don't even tell me about a few friends that I will talk to about that sort of stuff and that's kind of it because of what is the 5G doing to the birds? No, even more than that. Tell me, are birds real?

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tell me about a few friends that I will talk to about that sort of stuff and that's kind of it because of what is the 5G doing to the birds? No, even more than that. Tell me, are birds real? You got to get it took her a while. It took her a while to answer. She knows. I was a actually thinking about have my views on the heart changed over the years when you brought up 5G. So you mean like the heart like the pump in the middle of your body that pumps blood? It pumpily around? If it does, yes. That's what I know Lexi's views on these things. The number of times I've heard Lexi say the heart is not a pump. I don't know is at least five times, which is a lot because most people have never said that even once. Yeah. That's not what this episode of Breyer. is about welcome back listeners. We're glad you're here. We hope that you've been enjoying this tasteful selection of Brightheart episodes that we have been curating for you and delivering to your eardrums really week after week here. And that's that's pretty much the only introduction. This episode really just has one question. What is it? And we're going to discuss it for the whole time. Okay. Because there's a lot there. We've been talking about vocation. We've been talking about. We've We've been talking about the man, the woman, the head and the helper. We've been talking a lot about what

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Okay. Because there's a lot there. We've been talking about vocation. We've been talking about. We've We've been talking about the man, the woman, the head and the helper. We've been talking a lot about what vocations are. And so now it's just, we're asking the question, what spirit does the man and the woman? What do they need to bring to their vocations for maximal fruitfulness to please God to be maximally fruitful in their vocations? And there are many answers to that. I think we'll talk through a bunch of them and talk about why they matter to the man, why they matter to the woman, and how in particular. So any last thoughts before we... Any last thoughts? Any last, any final words? My first thoughts. Before we get into discussion, then we'll get to your first thoughts. No? I don't think so. Last thoughts on Alex Jones means. No, then move on. Move on. We've talked about this one a lot. I know we've talked about it a lot with respect to the ladies. It's true for the men as well. And the first answer, that I want to discuss is the idea of a growth mindset. Oh, yeah. A growth mindset. This is the spirit. When I say the spirit of a thing, by the way, everybody, I'm not just talking about like your immaterial soul. I'm talking about the vibe. I'm talking about the aura. I'm trying to

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about like your immaterial soul. I'm talking about the vibe. I'm talking about the aura. I'm trying to speak to Gen Z here. No, no, no, no. The aura that you bring. The spirit that you bring to a thing is the general attitude and vibe that you bring to it. Okay. Now Jen Z's all tuned in. A growth mindset. Yes. Now I know what you mean. What is it? What, Lexi didn't even know what this episode is going to be about until this moment. Even though I've told her this like 10 times. No, I knew what you meant, but I wasn't getting there with it. But yeah, I know what you mean. Ah, okay. Now we're here. We're locked in. Now you guys know that Lexi doesn't know the outline of the show. She just is a long. She's a long for the just like you, the listener. She's here. She's like, oh, that's an interesting. To be fair, I was probably having four conversations at once. What? You've been bringing a certain spirit to your workouts I can see from your bicep muscle over there. Okay. Woo. Anyway, not to flirt on the air. A growth mindset. What is it? Why does it matter for the ladies? A growth mindset is just the belief that you actually can grow your capacity in some sort of a way. Not that you will ever be like some other person over there, but that there is room for growth and that your brain can actually change and it's not. I mean, really historically, I think it was in the Victorian era. We were like so hard on genetics. Like,

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that there is room for growth and that your brain can actually change and it's not. I mean, really historically, I think it was in the Victorian era. We were like so hard on genetics. Like, you're just born that way and that's it. There's no room for improvement at all. And this honestly led to a lot of things that were very harmful like eugenics in some ways. But now science, and I think it's a Christian principle too, not just something that science can prove. is that we actually have, God has created our bodies and our minds in such a way that we can actually cultivate and grow within our God-given dispositions. There's boundaries, good boundaries, even to that. You literally can't wake up a different personality on January 1st every year, but you can spend the next 12 months cultivating, laying down new habits, weeding out old ones, all for the glory of the Lord and the good of those around you. Why is it that most? Soaps and cleaning products ironically don't contain clean ingredients. Indigo Sundry's soap company is helping families stay clean and healthy by starting with the most important step in cleanliness. Soap. Their cold-pressed soap bars, including clay bars and tallobars, are made from all natural ingredients that don't have any harmful chemicals. And they smell great. Visit indigosundrysoap.com and order today. And hey, subscribe for regular shipments

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are made from all natural ingredients that don't have any harmful chemicals. And they smell great. Visit indigosundrysoap.com and order today. And hey, subscribe for regular shipments and get 10% off every time. Home and hearth started simply with a mom, dad, and their two kids making clean natural alternatives for women who wanted something better. Through that process came the creation of the cycle support tincture set. Four herbal blends, one for each phase of your cycle, designed to help you reconnect with your body's natural rhythm, handcrafted with organic herbs that ease cramps, balance mood, support hormones, and bring calm throughout the month. Every bottle is handmade with care with high quality ingredients. Get the cycle tincture set at shop home and hearth.com forward slash bright and use code bright for 15% off your order this Christmas. In a world that seems to be at war against goodness, truth, and beauty, handmade art is more important than ever. Ella's Lines is an illustration studio rooted in faith and creativity, creating whimsical, meaningful artwork that tells stories and brings beauty into everyday life. From children's book illustrations to tailor-made commissions, each piece is crafted to encourage faith and inspire warmth and wonder. Commission Ella to illustrate your next project at Ella's lines.com. That's what I think of when I think of growth mindset. That's exactly right. A growth mindset recognizes that you have been given certain things,

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at Ella's lines.com. That's what I think of when I think of growth mindset. That's exactly right. A growth mindset recognizes that you have been given certain things, both in your environment and history, you had the parents that you had. You had the siblings that you had, the upbringing that you had, the education that you had. Every day up to this day was the way that it was. And some aspects of that were great and a gift and some aspects of that were bad and probably actively harmful. You are the person that you are in terms of your physical body. You have genetic predispositions to certain strengths and weaknesses. Your intellect on down to how fast you can run and how tall you're going to be. Yep, you were given that. And there was a range even up to this very day where the way that you ate and how you've worked out and exercised. And the way you've treated your body has interplayed with that genetic hand that you were dealt and turned, even turned genes off and on and did a bunch of epigenetic things. That all factors into who you are today when you woke up. You have certain friends who have taught you certain things. You've listened to certain teachers and influencers. You've gone to a certain church. You've heard certain teaching on the scriptures. Maybe you were a cradle Christian. Maybe you were a complete pagan. Like all of those things are true. You were dealt a certain thing and then you took what you were dealt every day between then and now

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Maybe you were a cradle Christian. Maybe you were a complete pagan. Like all of those things are true. You were dealt a certain thing and then you took what you were dealt every day between then and now and you did a bunch of stuff. But a growth mindset is the mindset that I can take that stuff and I can choose today and tomorrow and the next day until I die to either grow with it and interrogate some of those things and take them to their maximum potential. Or I can take them to the bottom Because someone with a huge gift, a bunch of gifts in a bunch of areas, they could take all of that and absolutely squander it. Yeah. And do nothing or worse. They could harm a bunch of people with all their great gifts. You know what I mean? So a growth mindset, you're right, is just this idea that you really actively ponder in your mind and think, I can grow, improve. I can bear good fruit and I can bear better fruit than I did last year and the year before and the year before that. If I will obey the Lord, walk in faith, believe him, put an effort, crucify my sin, put off my vices, learn new virtues and habits. It's a growth mindset. Yeah. Particularly for women in their

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my vices, learn new virtues and habits. It's a growth mindset. Yeah. Particularly for women in their vocation of helper, wife, homemaker, all these things, mother. Where in particular can this growth mindset? What are some of the big areas that you, that have helped you? Because I think you have a mindset like this? I can remember another elder's wife. I think we had one kid and we were sitting on the floor of her condo in Ogden and I can remember me laughing about not being a crafty mom and she just said, yeah, you will never be a crafty mom. Uh-huh. And I was just like, yeah, I just wasn't, God didn't give me that. Like, I just read books all day. I don't do anything with my hands. It's, it's just beyond my capability and I'm okay with that. And then Daphne was born a few years later. and I had been taking Titus II more seriously. But what was most encouraging about Titus 2 to me was that those skill sets were to be taught. And if something was to be taught, it meant something was to be learned. And if something was to be learned, it seemed to me that I actually could become a crafty mom. Such a thing as possible. Such a thing as possible. And not only that, but, um, I don't like growing in my Christian understanding of anthropology and like even metaphysics

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I don't like growing in my Christian understanding of anthropology and like even metaphysics and like reality, I understood there is actually goodness to physical things and the physical world. There is more to just than just my mind to be cultivated. There's actual virtue that can be learned from not being good at quilting and learning how to quilt. Yes. And so for me, that was the first thing. And I mean, there's, this is kind of why we've been joking with my boys recently of like, yeah, mom does have a lot of things that I'm really not good at, but I like doing a lot of things not that great because I understand the value of it now, both for myself and those around me. And occasionally I do find out that I am actually pretty good at one or two things that I would never have been able to bless other people with had I not known or tried. to do them. Absolutely. So I think for me, I had to see like, actually, this is kind of a commandment in some ways from Titus II. I don't have the option of just being a mom that doesn't do anything with her hands. Right. The hands are important. Some of that, honestly, too, is probably historical ignorance on my end in some ways, just being young and not very aware. But to be fair, though, it was also the culture.

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Some of that, honestly, too, is probably historical ignorance on my end in some ways, just being young and not very aware. But to be fair, though, it was also the culture. that we were living in at that time in the church. Yeah. Of like, you don't require that of me. I can't do that. And if you're doing that, that's legalism. And they even make fun of it. Exactly. Like actively. That's why I brought up that conversation. In the quote unquote gospel centrality, gospely, gospel centered gospel everything world, there was along with that an egalitarian impulse and a feminist impulse that would actively make fun of classically feminine things, literally. It would actively make fun of them. and say, like, yeah, women aren't just knitting and crocheting all the time. They are leaders. Women, you're leaders. You should be in the, you shouldn't be elders. Now we're complementarians. But you should be in the elders' meetings, for sure. And like, women, you're just, like, it was all this. They literally made fun of it. They're like, oh, we're not just grandmas with doilies on our heads. And we're just skirts all the time. like, we got our, like, they would make fun of all of all of these classes. feminine things. It was an op. I had an older lady at church literally pull me aside and chastise me for ironing your Sunday clothes for you. No. Yes. What? Yes.

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literally pull me aside and chastise me for ironing your Sunday clothes for you. No. Yes. What? Yes. Why? And then she went on to tell me, well, when you're my age, you'll understand and you'll sleep in separate beds. Oh, my goodness. Was this woman named Satan? What was her name? I'm not going to tell you. Was it the wicked witch of the West or the East? I'm not going to tell you. Was her name Jadis? Queen of charn? Probably. Was her name? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's really terrible. And the sad thing about it is that if we do live in a world where these things do matter, they matter for relationships, they matter for, like, meeting the needs of others, they matter for the fact that the Lord just said that they matter, and that in and of itself is enough, you will never be able to find satisfaction, trying to flee from those things. Yep. And so, maybe. Make fun of it all you want. I know deep down, you are rejecting some part of your anthropology. Yeah, your normed, creational design. Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, that's 100%. Like, I have known, make fun of me all you want. I have known since I was a little girl, knitting will fulfill me. And I'm trying. So hard for so long to learn how to knit. But really, it was a friend of mine that was like, this is hard, but you can do it. And now you're like knitting up a storm all the time.

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I have known since I was a little girl, knitting will fulfill me. And I'm trying. So hard for so long to learn how to knit. But really, it was a friend of mine that was like, this is hard, but you can do it. And now you're like knitting up a storm all the time. But this is a thing. And I, you know, people talk about, well, my little girl, she just isn't very domestic. She wants a job outside of the home. And I start to say things like, has she ever been allowed to just even dream the biggest dream she can domestically and try to fulfill that? Not for herself like in like a prideful way. But what would be satisfied her? And I will, I've said this to young women that are like, I just don't want to be home. Like, okay, but what if at, at that. the end of your life when you're a grandma, what are the three things that you're like, I'm going to be a grandma that does X, Y, Z? Yeah. And for me, it was baking bread from scratch, wearing an apron and knitting. I don't know why. I didn't have, none of those things were like in my childhood. And now you do all three of them. And so. I've seen you knit in an apron while bread was baking. There you go. There you go. Dang. So I think, I think Titus two requires this of us. us. I think it's also required of us as parents. Yeah. Because if, if there is no such thing as the ability to grow beyond your capacities, well, what's the point of parenting and disciplining

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Dang. So I think, I think Titus two requires this of us. us. I think it's also required of us as parents. Yeah. Because if, if there is no such thing as the ability to grow beyond your capacities, well, what's the point of parenting and disciplining our children then? Yeah, right. God made people like he made trees and birds and animals and grass Yeah. To grow. Yeah. And there's a book actually, you can read it by Carol Dwecht. I like, I think you do too. We took AP Psych. in high school. And I just loved neuroscience. And I read all sorts of neuroscience books in high school because I just thought it was fascinating. And then later on, I came upon, I think it's called growth mindset, but it was applied to dyslexia. Uh-huh. Because there's like two, like growing up in our generation, it was, um, there's no way to fix it. Yeah. Just tutor it out and maybe someday they'll get a job, sort of a thing. But today, because of neuroscience, we can actually look at the brain and God's really cool and kind and he's like created technology to be a help to us. we can look at the brain and actually see we can literally go in and create synapses in dyslexic brains that are not there. Like they literally have part of their brain that never connected. But if you're just going to tutor, you're basically just putting a band-aid over that brain. You're not fixing anything.

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brains that are not there. Like they literally have part of their brain that never connected. But if you're just going to tutor, you're basically just putting a band-aid over that brain. You're not fixing anything. It's like there was a break in the road and you just kind of walked around it. Yes. So they're fixing it. Or you can. You can also read the woman that changed her brain. I think her last name is Aerosmith. That's another really cool one. Or you can actually figure out how to grow those synapses and totally change it and make them able to do whatever the Lord created them to do. And to me, that's a really big deal. When you're talking about a child's trajectory and like whether or not you are going to help them fill their God-given potential, it matters what you believe about how people change and how God made the body and the brain and what people are and are not able to do. And I don't want to be stuck in that weird Victorian mindset of you're just screwed. Yeah, it's fundamentally, there's this big, which way a Western man kind of decision in front of us. And it shows up everywhere, which path you've taken. There's the path of everything just happens to me. I am fundamentally the result of the actions of others. I am not, I have no

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happens to me. I am fundamentally the result of the actions of others. I am not, I have no power in anything. The world is against me. I'm going to grumble and I'm also going to be really anxious. In that person, we can, we've, like this is the Lord Jesus telling people, don't be anxious about this. Don't be anxious about that. Don't be anxious about this other thing. They're envious. They're bitter. They're full of grumbling and complaining. And it's, there's, there's, That type of mind, like, first of all, it's really bad in itself in the immediate things it does on the decisions you make. Because if you really believe those things, you won't act, you won't do anything. Because you just believe it won't work anyway. But what's wild is the degree to which that shapes you, not just soul even. Like, it really does warp your soul. But we can tell that that literally destroys your body. The mind is so powerful. God made them, like, think about this. God made the world with words. He is, he is a mind. Like, God made people in his image to be able to affect the world around them with words and thoughts. And, and I'm not talking about telekinesis necessarily. I'm talking, I know that this isn't on a cosmos. I'm talking about literally what you believe often will affect.

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necessarily. I'm talking, I know that this isn't on a cosmos. I'm talking about literally what you believe often will affect. what your body does. We were just talking about this. I wish I had the study because I didn't actually read the study. So this could be overblown, but the summary of it that I read. And I actually believe from the source that it was legit is that they took groups of people and they would rub like an oak leaf on their arm. And they would tell them while they're rubbing the oak leaf on their arm of one group, this is poisonous. It's poison ivy. They would say it's poisonous. Oh, okay. And then they'd say, would take another leaf and it was poison ivy. And they would rub it on their arm and say, this is, this is harmless. It's just, you know, it's, don't worry about this is harmless. We're just testing this. And what was crazy is that in some statistically significant group of people, the people who had the oak leaf rubbed in their arm, they're not allergic to it, nothing. And they were told this is poisonous. They broke out in hives. And then the people that had poison ivy rubbed on them, which seems like a pretty interesting experiment.

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hives. And then the people that had poison ivy rubbed on them, which seems like a pretty interesting experiment. They didn't have a reaction to it when they were told this is, this is not poisonous. And the point was that like specifically the reaction to poison ivy is an autoimmune type of response. It, your body is the thing causing the reaction to it. It's not like venom in the same way. It's actually not poison even. It's like a specific thing that makes your body respond with inflammation and histamines and all this stuff. There are a million examples of this we could give. Yeah. Where if you're really anxious and et cetera, you'll die. You'll have a heart attack. You will just die. Your body will respond by dying. And so much of our lives, if you just decide, like in the name of Jesus Christ, I am going to get, I'm not good at this thing right now. And I'm not going to, but I'm going to get better at it. Yeah. Like you can't just will yourself into being the greatest sprinter of all time. There are limitations to, like we're not saying everybody is. You can be anything.

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Where if you're really anxious and et cetera, you'll die. You'll have a heart attack. You will just die. Your body will respond by dying. And so much of our lives, if you just decide, like in the name of Jesus Christ, I am going to get, I'm not good at this thing right now. And I'm not going to, but I'm going to get better at it. Yeah. Like you can't just will yourself into being the greatest sprinter of all time. There are limitations to, like we're not saying everybody is. You can be anything. you want. I can grow six extra inches tall if I just will myself to. No, but like God made a world where the thoughts we think, the spirit we take into things, they matter. And so growth mindset is just saying, I can grow. It's so simple. I can grow and get better at something I'm not very good at right now. And something I'm decent at, I could get really good at it. I can learn a new skill. Oh, hey, look, the duties and vocations God gave

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you want. I can grow six extra inches tall if I just will myself to. No, but like God made a world where the thoughts we think, the spirit we take into things, they matter. And so growth mindset is just saying, I can grow. It's so simple. I can grow and get better at something I'm not very good at right now. And something I'm decent at, I could get really good at it. I can learn a new skill. Oh, hey, look, the duties and vocations God gave me, apparently, like I've, you know, ladies, apparently there's a lot of cooking. And I've heard women say, I'm just not good at cooking. Well, did you know that you can learn how to cook? Oh, I'm not very feminine. Like, I don't really dress. I don't know, I don't do my hair. I don't know how to be, you know, really. I'm not like one of those. I was always kind of a tombo. Well, did you know that you can learn how to ornament yourself and take care of your physical body so that you could be more attractive to your spouse? There's a limit. Like you can't become, I'm never going to be, as attractive as Tom Brady. And I've come to peace with that. It took a long time. It took years, but I'm at peace with that reality now. I don't know who Tom Brady is. I'm so thankful that my wife doesn't. Apparently does not have the internet. She doesn't know how to use it. She just nits. I told the ladies, I was like, guess what, guys? I discovered YouTube this year. I discovered you can learn things on YouTube. She's like Buddy the elf.

00:27:12

as attractive as Tom Brady. And I've come to peace with that. It took a long time. It took years, but I'm at peace with that reality now. I don't know who Tom Brady is. I'm so thankful that my wife doesn't. Apparently does not have the internet. She doesn't know how to use it. She just nits. I told the ladies, I was like, guess what, guys? I discovered YouTube this year. I discovered you can learn things on YouTube. She's like Buddy the elf. So I just gave them this pep talk at book group. I'm like, there's no excuse now. If you don't know something and you can't get in touch with me, you go to YouTube now. Because we all have YouTube. I know we all have YouTube. And they're like, Lexi, you just learned about YouTube? It was like 10 years ago. I don't, you know what it was. It was when my friend Jen D's, my painting friend. I don't know why I never thought of this. She was like, just go watch these painters paint on YouTube. And I was like, what? No way. That's amazing. And now Lexi paint. and she paints stuff. I can tell what it is. Okay. I look at it and I go, that's an orange. And she's like, yep, that is an orange. It's not like, nope, that was our house. I know what it is now. You could do that too, though. You could do that. Growth mindset. We can talk about this all day. For men, this is similar, just applied to your vocation. It's I can, hey, AI is likely to replace my job in the next three years. Cool. I'm

00:28:08

and she paints stuff. I can tell what it is. Okay. I look at it and I go, that's an orange. And she's like, yep, that is an orange. It's not like, nope, that was our house. I know what it is now. You could do that too, though. You could do that. Growth mindset. We can talk about this all day. For men, this is similar, just applied to your vocation. It's I can, hey, AI is likely to replace my job in the next three years. Cool. I'm screwed. No, you're not. You're actually not. The world God made. You're not screwed. There's a bunch of stuff that you could go figure out and learn how to do. And yet, you have to start now and get going on it and maybe learn how to use the tool or whatever it is. And this isn't a commentary on AI. But this is just a good example. A lot of people are really fearful about right now, I think. Growth mindset looks at that and says, well, I guess it's time to go take another course from life and I can grow. Do you think this is why I, I, I, I, I, know the answer to myself. But talk a little bit about the difference between like education as it's been sold to us from the government versus liberal education. Yeah. There's two end goals in mind and having one is always growth mindset and the other one isn't. Yeah. I mean, a lot of our industrialized education system that we've talked about this in the past. There are lots of errors with it. One of them is this is egalitarian error that like everybody is the same like everybody.

00:29:20

Yeah. There's two end goals in mind and having one is always growth mindset and the other one isn't. Yeah. I mean, a lot of our industrialized education system that we've talked about this in the past. There are lots of errors with it. One of them is this is egalitarian error that like everybody is the same like everybody. is pretty much, they need to go through the same process to learn the same outcomes and that kind of thing and kind of ignores hierarchy in the world and different intellects and different, you know, blah, blah, blah. But one of the big errors that it makes is it gives people, even if it doesn't intend to, it gives people the idea that there's this body of knowledge that you learn between the ages of 5 and 18. And that's like this body of knowledge you pretty much need. And then if you jump through that hoop, then you can go through another hoop and college and learn this other body of knowledge. And that will give you the accreditation and the certification. that you are good to go make money in the economy. And so someone will then give you a job because you've jumped through those two hoops. So now you have a job and that's good and you have a career. And the liberal arts, a classical education, the way that the West often taught. First of all, it was primarily for elites. It was for royalty and nobility. Sorry, nobility and clergy. And a lot of the education for the most people, for most people actually happened vocationally, where they were learning. trades and crafts and how to work in the life of the community to serve people, meet human needs

00:30:40

trades and crafts and how to work in the life of the community to serve people, meet human needs in very necessary, obviously connected to human life kind of ways. Most people did that. They weren't like, and they, a lot of them, you know, especially over time with the influence of Christianity, learned to read and did things like that as well. But they were learning things that made the world go round to help babies be born and kids and people eat and have clothing and have houses and have commerce, et cetera. the liberal arts education focused on making free men. Liberal is like freedom, free. You're liberated. And it was giving you the tools of learning where you would learn these, the trivium and quadrivium, these seven subjects, three very central and then four, you know, concentrically going out other disciplines. You would learn them. And along the way, you would be learning how to rule yourself. You would be learning how to rule others. You would be learning how to learn. the tools of learning so that you could take them up and go learn anything. And you were becoming a virtuous human being that was incultuating not just knowledge in you, but virtue, including things like a growth mindset. They probably wouldn't have called it that in the Middle Ages, but just this will to go and affect the world around you and lead and rule others as a virtuous man and not a tyrannical evil man, but a good man going and speaking good words to order.

00:31:51

They probably wouldn't have called it that in the Middle Ages, but just this will to go and affect the world around you and lead and rule others as a virtuous man and not a tyrannical evil man, but a good man going and speaking good words to order. the world to good ends. So that was education. And it wasn't ever done. You would then go take those tools and you'd learn a lot of other things and you would order the world around you. And a lot of what you continue to learn would relate to the part of the world you were ordering. Were you a nobleman? You're going to learn a lot about ordering lands and ordering people and managing rulers and you're going to learn a lot about that. Are you clergy? I think Dorothy Sayers was a one that said to a liberal education, part of the goal of a liberal education is to put the tools to continue education in the hands of the student. So it never stops. And that's why she came up with the, what is it, the grammar, the rhetoric and the grammar, grammar logic and rhetoric. Yes. Because you should be able to take those three tools to any subject and learn. And I remember, I was like, deep in my Dorothy Sayers era when I started quilting. And I remember thinking, talking to the older lady that was teaching me quilting, like, I have no clue what this jargon is that you're using. But I understand the place I should start is with the grammar of the subject.

00:33:10

talking to the older lady that was teaching me quilting, like, I have no clue what this jargon is that you're using. But I understand the place I should start is with the grammar of the subject. So I literally remember Googling all of these quilting terms because I was like, she's trying to help me, but I don't even know where to go because I don't have the foundation. Yeah. So I'm just, and there is something to be said to from learning by the way, as Charlotte Mason would say. But that's, I think that's a big difference in like even how you view education is do you have those tools of self-education? Because if you do, you know there's no excuse. You can learn whatever you say your heart to learn. That's right. It's again taking the right spirit to the world where as Christians by faith, we believe that the world is fundamentally knowable and that we were made to know it, that there's a correspondence between our minds in the world where our minds can comprehend and apprehend and order and think reasonably. And then we can go and affect the world and do things in it that make sense and bring it to some purpose because God is purposeful and he's a creator and he ordered the world and he gave us tasks and ordered our minds. So Christians can believe all these things that non-Christians, they can't give a proper accounting for why this would be true. And for example, like an evolutionary materialist worldview, we go out and by faith, we believe that. And then we just say,

00:34:23

that non-Christians, they can't give a proper accounting for why this would be true. And for example, like an evolutionary materialist worldview, we go out and by faith, we believe that. And then we just say, what are the constituent parts of any subject? What are the rules of it? Like before I play monopoly, I need to know the rules. Before I go and make money, I need to learn like how money works. Before I go and, you know, what is being a plumber? Well, it's being a plumber, but then it's also being a salesman. It's also being understanding human psychology. How does a human being relate to somebody coming into their home to plumb something? And what is likely to get me good reviews in terms of how I behave and speak and look and what my van looks like and what my customer service pipeline looks like. And all of a sudden, a man who's thinking well with a growth mindset, he might not know anything about marketing. He might not know anything about SEO and Google reviews. He might not know anything about customer service and sales. But as he goes by the way and he takes these skills to that task, a wise man can, with the growth mindset, properly master all of the constituent parts of that business. And then even know himself. I am good at this aspect of it, but you know what would really multiply this business? Salespeople, because I'm not really great at sales. And I've learned some things and I could get by as a sole proprietor business, the only guy in the business.

00:35:41

would really multiply this business? Salespeople, because I'm not really great at sales. And I've learned some things and I could get by as a sole proprietor business, the only guy in the business. But that would really help. Let me, let me see if I could make that work. How would I pay that person? Well, they'd have to generate this much more work for me. What about an apprentice? Would that help me? And then he could learn. And what if I hired somebody else? What if I managed plumbers instead of just plumbed myself. Knowing where you fit in that is all wisdom and growth. And sometimes a growth mindset looks at a thing and goes, I'm not actually the right answer to that problem, but someone else is. That can be a growth thing too. Yes. Yes. It's not me. I'm not always the answer to everything because I'm not God. Yes. Humility. Like we're getting into a lot here of another aspect. We've talked about this a little bit, but I want to put a point to it, which is agency. Agency is a part of a growth mindset. But agency, is basically the belief that I can act and affect things positively to the ends I've appointed for them. Agency is the willingness to make a decision and go and act on it. Instead of being acted upon all of the time, men and women would be served greatly in their vocations by virtue of agency. I'll give an example that I want to hear your thoughts on it. So let's say you're a lady and you're in a house that is economy stuff. You move in a house. It's kind of a fixer up where. There's a lot of stuff that

00:37:01

I'll give an example that I want to hear your thoughts on it. So let's say you're a lady and you're in a house that is economy stuff. You move in a house. It's kind of a fixer up where. There's a lot of stuff that you don't like about it. And it's not serving everybody maximally. And so someone without agency would just fuss. They'd say my husband got me this terrible house. This house sucks. I hate the way this kitchen is. I hate the way this color wall is, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, and just fuss about it. They would fuss and fuss and fuss and fuss and fuss. Someone with agency would go in a growth mindset. would say, okay, let me pick something. What's the, what's the biggest problem? And then they would say, I actually can affect this. And then they would say they'd be realistic. How much money do I have to do this? Husband? How much money do I have? Is there any money? And maybe he says there's no money for that. And you say, what can I do for free? Because there are things. Lots of things. In fact, you'll find a lot of time that free can get a lot done if you're willing to work. Yes. And make a decision and learn and go and act and, you know, et cetera. Maybe trade. Maybe there's a guy in your church could do something, but you can't pay them and you say, could I, is there something you'd be willing to trade that I could do or help you with? You know, I'll bake you a loaf of sourdough bread every week for, I don't know, make sure you're not taking advantage of your friends. You see what I mean? It's agency. It's the decision I'm going, it's the willing, it's the will to act. So where,

00:38:14

every week for, I don't know, make sure you're not taking advantage of your friends. You see what I mean? It's agency. It's the decision I'm going, it's the willing, it's the will to act. So where, where else, Lexi, do you see in the homemaker's life where a lack of agency just wrecks all and where agency can really make a big difference. Maybe it's because we are in the time of year that we're in, but I see this so often with women in sickness. Okay. And like seasons of sickness in the home where it becomes like it's all happening to me. And so now I'm a victim of all of the circumstances and the lack of sleep and nothing can be done. And it's going to take months to get out of this hole. And yeah, that's not. True. I mean, you can wake up and tell yourself that. Or you can wake up and say sickness is a season of life, but it is really part of life. And just like every other part of life, it deserves being dignified as well. Maybe I should get dressed today. Maybe I should figure out how to get a homemade but simple dinner on the table. So we're not ordering Costa Vita again tonight. Maybe when I feel good next month, I have a plan now to can two meals that are on the shelf. So next time, I don't, don't feel I can actually rest a little bit more and not have to be on my feet cooking and drag this out

00:39:35

don't feel I can actually rest a little bit more and not have to be on my feet cooking and drag this out longer. I think that's a really big one. Um, because we kind of always think the Calvary is coming to save us without realizing like, no, your, your part in this is being the responsible party. Even, even learning in our experience, you know, okay, this kid had asthma. And so we ended up in doctor's offices and even ER visits occasionally. And that continued until we looked at it and said, what are they doing when we go to the doctor? Well, they're doing this, this and this. One of those things we can't do because it's like a prescription thing. But also we don't really like that thing. It's really bad where we look into it, this medication. But you know what we could do? We could do this. We could get a nebulizer and we could learn how to do this thing that they're doing it. It doesn't look that complicated. And then we could also learn, how are they diagnosing whether this is an emergency or not? You know how they say they don't make things like they used to? Well, now we do. Edwin's heirlooms is a family-run business that provides handmade wooden toys for all ages. From stick horses and push-pull toys to tabletop board games for the whole family, all crafted from sturdy materials that ensure heirloom quality and vintage feel. They're aiming to bring back nostalgia and imagination to the things we play with. When you

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00:43:23

Is there something else we could do that may be even better? And over time, the arsenal grows. And that's just one thing. It's just home health. Yeah. Norovirus. We learned things about the use of bleach. And some of this is like not interesting to me at all. I remember having to learn the doctor teaching me, me taking notes. I had to figure out how to measure his lung capacity and keep it at capacity for months while we were weaning off medications because it was so dangerous. That was not, that was like one of the first medical things where I was like, Lord, I don't want to do this at all. It is very scary. And it was right when COVID happened. So we genuinely didn't know at that. It was the first six weeks. We were like, well, is this deadly or is this not? Because it is. If so, we probably shouldn't be weaning him, but we took the step of faith. But I remember just being like, I don't want to do this, Lord. But you please help me succeed in understanding this because I'm not a medical doctor. I haven't been to school for this. Help me understand how to measure his lung capacity. A lot of this as well has to do with humility. Yes. You've got a growth mindset, agency and humility. Humility is very much required in all this because it starts with. the assumption that I actually don't know a lot. And a lot of us deal with this. It's kind of an insecurity, I think. It's pride. It's insecurity. They're related of like, oh, I don't need to learn.

00:44:37

the assumption that I actually don't know a lot. And a lot of us deal with this. It's kind of an insecurity, I think. It's pride. It's insecurity. They're related of like, oh, I don't need to learn. I don't need to know anything. But the best people I know, like the most fruitful people, they'll ask a bunch of questions of every, how did you do that? I don't, I have no idea how to do that. There's a humility to recognize. I actually don't have a skill. I don't know much. Like, I've heard. A million times. This is going to be kind of offensive. Uh-oh. I've heard really obviously fat people talk a lot, like jump into conversations about like exercise and weight loss and stuff. And I'm like, bro, what are you doing? If you know this stuff really know this stuff really well, you're talking like you do. Hello, nobody believes you because you're not doing any of it. So why should I listen to you? Because why would I listen to a really, like, if you had a personal trainer who was morbidly obese, why would you hire that guy? Even if he knew everything, you still would have a barrier because you'd go, there's something lacking here. A lot of the time, we have to have humility on one of two fronts. It's either the humility to say I don't know something. That's a good thing to admit. Or the humility to recognize that I do know something and the problem is

00:45:54

the time, we have to have humility on one of two fronts. It's either the humility to say I don't know something. That's a good thing to admit. Or the humility to recognize that I do know something and the problem is that I'm not virtuous. The problem is that I'm actually not doing, I'm not living in accord with my knowledge. I know how to fix this problem. I just won't do it because I'm not virtuous yet. Both of those are pretty humbling thoughts, you know, but you can't, a wife, a husband, neither one of them is really going to grow much or bear the best fruit they could if they're, if they won't do those two things actually quite frequently. Yeah, which feels, I don't know, I always feel a little scatterbrain because I, I knew my propensity for so long was just, for me, it wasn't lack of humility in the sense of, um, I wanted to look better. It was embarrassment, actually. Like, I don't want to be an imposition. I don't want to. I had to get over that. And I, Lindsay has helped me so much with this over the years. Just being gracious and generous and always cheerful with her time. And, and for me, that has translated into other areas. I'm not even just talking about knitting at this point. But, I think I just lost where I was. Humility, admitting you don't know something, being embarrassed about asking.

00:47:08

I think I just lost where I was. Humility, admitting you don't know something, being embarrassed about asking. Before that, though. Sorry, guys. Right now, we're going to be humble and admit that we don't know what we're talking about. And that's okay. Move on. To move on. Because humility is really important to bring that spirit to your vocations. It's true. I, I see this all the time. my own instincts where I'm like, oh, I know what I was too proud to say, but I'm actually not good at that. And this person really is. It's this instinct to give honor to learn. It's so important because I said earlier that a lot of the time, a growth mindset agency ownership, these things actually result in you admitting that you're not the answer to the problem. That could be really hard to do, but it's so much more effective when you recognize God did not make me the solution to every problem in my life. Yes. He made other people the solution to a lot of those problems. And so if I will like in our home as one example, I am not great at many, many like handy things. I will try to learn them and I will do them. And I at times in our life when we were utterly broke. Like I would do everything I can. You have done a lot of things though. I can learn it. I don't want to say

00:48:26

I will try to learn them and I will do them. And I at times in our life when we were utterly broke. Like I would do everything I can. You have done a lot of things though. I can learn it. I don't want to say I can't learn these things either as an excuse. But there has there there does come a time where I I've had to recognize that I'm going to limit the effectiveness even if my wife as one of my deputies if I don't tell her that is a good thing we want we need to get done. Here's the budget for it. I'm not going to do it. But I, you have my permission. Just tell me before you spend money on it so that I can make sure that I have money to give you to do that thing. But it's not always pleasant to be like, yeah, here comes this other guy to do something for me. Part of me wants to be like, I could do. do it. I could do that hot water heater. And like the thing is I could genuinely like I could have figured out our hot water heater went out recently. I could have figured out how to do it. I know people who've done their own hot water heater. It's on YouTube. You can learn anything. But there is a kind of wisdom of knowing I could do that. It's going to take me about two days. And when it's done, I'm still going to be like Carter. Can you come make sure I'm not killing everybody with carbon monoxide? And that's fine. be nice. But then I thought Carter is a great plumber at our church. Just go support. He's really good. I'm

00:49:38

going to be like Carter. Can you come make sure I'm not killing everybody with carbon monoxide? And that's fine. be nice. But then I thought Carter is a great plumber at our church. Just go support. He's really good. I'm going to spend a little bit more money to have it done, probably. But am I? Because what if I do it totally wrong? Yeah. And then I have to spend the money again. Yeah. So there's a humility aspect of just recognizing like, I'm, I ain't it. I'm not the answer to this thing. Do you remember what you're going to say? Yeah. I was, I was just going to say that sometimes with this, with how, having a growth mindset. I've had to be okay with the scatterbrained feeling sometimes or like, I don't even know. Like I keep telling the young moms at church, it's okay that your children are home trying to learn a lot of different things in your home. It's okay that, yes, you need a system for containing the mess and cleaning up the mess, but it's also okay that there's a mess a lot of the time. Yeah. Because you also want them knowing humans actually try to learn new things. And it's not like the end goal of the house isn't keeping the house clean. That's right. And so I have had to, like there's been in different seasons where I've had to be like, it's just okay that this is how things are because this is part of being human. I'm inviting other people into this, hospitality. I told them

00:50:52

like there's been in different seasons where I've had to be like, it's just okay that this is how things are because this is part of being human. I'm inviting other people into this, hospitality. I told them recently like, don't be surprised if you come over to my house for dinner and there might be like mud at the back door. It's because my kids live here. And yes, they helped me get ready for you. but they also lived here today. And so there's there's a temptation for some people, I think, because of the awkwardness of a growth mindset, you go through these awkward, gangly stages of you don't have systems. Like the thing for me right now is I don't, I'm not good enough at painting yet to have a system to know when to stop. So I can only paint when I can finish it fully. I still don't understand how to stop and put the palette away with the plastic. I need to figure that out. I could paint more if I did that. don't know how to right now. It's an awkward stage of painting. Yeah. But if some people won't go through that awkward stage, they won't ever learn anything. Right. And the thing is, you can go listen to Huberman on this. He has some really good episodes on like just how we learn. Yeah. Your brain doesn't actually, it's not the repetition. It's you have to push your brain to the point of failure essentially of like this isn't working and I failed at this. Yeah. I have to go back and pull out.

00:52:06

actually, it's not the repetition. It's you have to push your brain to the point of failure essentially of like this isn't working and I failed at this. Yeah. I have to go back and pull out. half of the sweater now. That's when the dopamine happens is when you're getting to the point of failure. But if you won't even try because your biggest priority is like, I don't know, clean house or like you feel like it's a waste of finances or whatever, you're never going to get there because you just have to go through the awkward teenage stage of learning that thing. Right. So and I think some people will just want to avoid that all together because they're like, well, I don't want to look silly or that is too messy. I don't want to have to deal with that. But for me, it's really important that my kids, I mean, that's why that sits out there is because I want them to know I'm pointing to my. Yeah. Your easel. My easel. Because I want them to know, no, there is ways in the small corners of life to figure out new things. If you're always waiting for some ideal season, it's not going to happen. And I want them to know that too. Because that's what's equipping them as humans going into their own adulthood.

00:52:47

I don't want to have to deal with that. But for me, it's really important that my kids, I mean, that's why that sits out there is because I want them to know I'm pointing to my. Yeah. Your easel. My easel. Because I want them to know, no, there is ways in the small corners of life to figure out new things. If you're always waiting for some ideal season, it's not going to happen. And I want them to know that too. Because that's what's equipping them as humans going into their own adulthood. Yeah, that's right. And it's also related to this. It's going to sound like I'm discouraging people from doing what we just said to do. But this is another important mindset spirit to take to and discipline. And that's follow through. Yes. And consistency. Because there's an archetypal person who they start a new thing every month. And they finish precisely zero percent of the things they start. Because it's really fun to start things. it's really, really hard to keep doing them or to finish them. I don't know if I talked about this on here, but I did tell Jen, again, my painting friend, over Christmas, I text her and I said, I'm just kind of laughing at the sovereignty of God in all of this. Because when I first tried to contact you about painting, I had my third baby was born.

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Because when I first tried to contact you about painting, I had my third baby was born. I was still trying to get dinner on the table regularly. I had no business. No systems in place. Had it homeschool to get. I genuinely had no business learning to oil paint of all of the things. So me trying to figure that out, the Lord was like, eh, we'll give you, we'll give you 10 years. Give it a decade, Lexi. Hey, Lexi, good thought. Bad timing. But like seeing it now and seeing how I have the systems for the basics in place, that isn't an issue for me. I know the only way this is going to happen is in the small chunks of time. I mean, I told you even recently, the ideal is waking up before everybody in painting. That's where I'm trying to figure out how to still get to there. Yeah. But I know I have a slot because I've practiced all of these other things for so long that that's no longer an issue for me. And for me, I kind of can figure out that capacity a lot easier. It's a sorting tool for me now of like, can I pull this in or not? Is this not the season? Is it the season? Does that make sense? Yeah. And this is another aspect. Why are you laughing? Why are you over there laughing at me? Well, because it's just funny that you, it's so true. that God's kindness of like, no, not now. You're going to do it. Just, just hang on.

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that God's kindness of like, no, not now. You're going to do it. Just, just hang on. And also, that's you. You're a woe, not a giddy up. Yes. And also it helps. It was just like, kind of like this house. I knew I was the Lord's princess. I knew he was going to give me a house that I loved. This is Lexi's mindset. No, it's actually a good point. The belief that God, that God likes to bless his people. No, I walked around this yard and I thought we are Adam and Eve. He wants to give me a garden. There's a lamp post at the park up the street. It's like Narnia. This is my house lord. I know it is. I know it is. And that's kind of what it was like with the oil painting of it is a good gift. It is a desire that the Lord put in my heart as a young person. But he just said not not yet. But now is the time and it's okay. It's not a bad thing. I don't need to feel ashamed or bad that I spend my free time painting bad paintings. Yeah. And the way to think about this is that there's another virtue.

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Adam and Eve. He wants to give me a garden. There's a lamp post at the park up the street. It's like Narnia. This is my house lord. I know it is. I know it is. And that's kind of what it was like with the oil painting of it is a good gift. It is a desire that the Lord put in my heart as a young person. But he just said not not yet. But now is the time and it's okay. It's not a bad thing. I don't need to feel ashamed or bad that I spend my free time painting bad paintings. Yeah. And the way to think about this is that there's another virtue. another type aspect of the spirit to bring to vocations. And that is a rightly ordered love and wisdom to say if you are a young man or maybe even not a young man and you look around your estate and you see that you're not doing that great financially. And you're not leading well in family religion. And there's a bunch of things you go. That is not the time to become an expert at the local

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another type aspect of the spirit to bring to vocations. And that is a rightly ordered love and wisdom to say if you are a young man or maybe even not a young man and you look around your estate and you see that you're not doing that great financially. And you're not leading well in family religion. And there's a bunch of things you go. That is not the time to become an expert at the local militia. It's not a time to be like I'm now going to become an expert in the assembly of the perfect battle rifle and sidearm and I'm going to learn small unit tactics. And I'm going to go and become till I can shoot expert with rifle and pistol. I'm going to go. Those are all actually really great things. Those are great masculine arts that are classically good for a man to learn. The martial arts of his time, right? Which in Our day means knowing how to use a rifle, a sidearm. I would recommend that for sure. But knowing when. So a guy shouldn't start going an evening a week or two evenings a week or using his Saturday to go do that. If he's not providing well yet, you have to start at the center of your vocations with all these mindsets. Because it's fun to use the growth mindset and the agency and the responsibility and the humility and all of that to go learn something fun, like painting for a woman.

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Our day means knowing how to use a rifle, a sidearm. I would recommend that for sure. But knowing when. So a guy shouldn't start going an evening a week or two evenings a week or using his Saturday to go do that. If he's not providing well yet, you have to start at the center of your vocations with all these mindsets. Because it's fun to use the growth mindset and the agency and the responsibility and the humility and all of that to go learn something fun, like painting for a woman. But is dinner really good? Or are people like nodding their head and politely smiling every night that dinner was great, honey, thank you. And it sucked. It was actually bad and no one liked it. And laundry's rarely done. And those are the center. The people aren't being fed and clothed well. And your kids look disheveled all the time and they're not obedient. Okay. For a husband or a wife, think of the center of the vocations. Become competent there. And then you can start adding these. other things that are the overflow. They're the glories. So I'm actually talking first about the central vocations getting this mindset applied to them. Yes. And then see what happens. And you can become very well rounded. And there's a bunch of others. Anything I've learned, I've never taken from my children's time. It's always been when they're sleeping. Yeah, that's true. It's from your own discretionary time. Correct. Either I get up earlier because I really want to learn that or I do it during nap time or I do it after they're in bed at night.